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Old Nov 8, 2005, 01:48 AM   #1
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Moevan1
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Exclamation SATA RAID setup? which drives are best

I am considering going with a RAID setup down the road. But, a bit out of the HDD loop. Any suggestions on a good HDD that isn't going to break the bank.

I mostly deal with NCIX.com now if you want to take a look on that site
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Old Nov 8, 2005, 06:56 AM   #2
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Well I might be starting the flame war but can I ask why you are going RAID? The performance boost you are supposed to gain has been shown in real life applications to be very minor and even none existent with a few very specific exceptions.
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Old Nov 8, 2005, 08:32 PM   #3
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its not about the performance boost........That's just icing on the cake if I get it

Its about having a back up off system files
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Old Nov 8, 2005, 08:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moevan1
its not about the performance boost........That's just icing on the cake if I get it

Its about having a back up off system files
so you want raid 1 or 5 then? just about any hard drive you buy nowadays can run in a raid array.
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Old Nov 8, 2005, 08:49 PM   #5
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I know that...

Let me explain more clearly. I am looking for a good performing HDD that I can get for a good price. The options of HDD's are abundant and it can be a bit clouded as to what is actually out there.
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Old Nov 8, 2005, 10:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moevan1
I know that...

Let me explain more clearly. I am looking for a good performing HDD that I can get for a good price. The options of HDD's are abundant and it can be a bit clouded as to what is actually out there.
ummm..... well if anything goes, I vote for the seagate 7200.8 drive; 5 year warranty
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Old Nov 8, 2005, 10:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker010
ummm..... well if anything goes, I vote for the seagate 7200.8 drive; 5 year warranty


We just set up a RAID1 array using a couple of 300GB 7200.8 HDDs at the school. And I'm plenty pleased w/ my older 7200.7 HDDs. Seagate rocks.

And, depending upon your price range, the new 7200.9 series raises capacity levels quite nicely, but at quite a premium.
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Old Nov 8, 2005, 10:56 PM   #8
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Maxtor III Maxline with 16MB cache, same HDs that I have except built for 24/7 operation and 5 yr warranty. Will beat the pants off 7200.8 in performance and noise
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Old Nov 8, 2005, 11:15 PM   #9
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now that's the info I am looking for.....

Keep it coming guys
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 08:30 AM   #10
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While we're at it, the WD Caviar RE2 series as well; built for RAID as well. 5 year warranty to boot, and dang fast.

http://www.storagereview.com/php/cms...ontent&id=1010
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 10:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisler
Well I might be starting the flame war but can I ask why you are going RAID? The performance boost you are supposed to gain has been shown in real life applications to be very minor and even none existent with a few very specific exceptions.
Untrue, when upgrading from a single 160 GB 7200 RPM drive to two in RAID 0 not only did I get double the space, but I got a significant boost in read speeds. Faster load times FTW.

As for which drives, I am happy with my Maxtor drives (one diamond max 9 one 10) @ 7200 rpm, but I have heard seagate has some excellent and cheap drives.
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 11:31 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
Maxtor III Maxline with 16MB cache, same HDs that I have except built for 24/7 operation and 5 yr warranty. Will beat the pants off 7200.8 in performance and noise
I don't know about the performance and noise part. Seagate's 7200.9 series has 16MB cache too so that's not exactly a "selling point" for Maxtor anymore.
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 03:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BY97
I don't know about the performance and noise part. Seagate's 7200.9 series has 16MB cache too so that's not exactly a "selling point" for Maxtor anymore.
DiamondMax 10 vs 7200.8

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_cont...=ncq300&page=9

Quote:
Between the two 300 GB NCQ-enabled drives we’ve looked at today, the Maxtor DiamondMax 10 and the Seagate Barracuda 7200.8, it is very clear to us that Maxtor simply has a better all-around product. The DiamondMax 10 showed better performance across the board, runs noticeably quieter, and costs anywhere between 5-10% less compared to the Barracuda 7200.8. That’s a pretty clean sweep, in our books.
All factors except price hold true to this day.


DiamondMax 10 (aka Maxline III) vs 7200.9

http://storagereview.com/articles/20...00641AS_6.html

7200.9 marginally edges out the Maxtor in Gaming throughput, and is competitive or lower in all other tests (of note, lower in sequential read and similar in access time). Its also noisier than the Maxtor.
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 03:37 PM   #14
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My suggestion is to go over and start reading at www.storagereview.com
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 03:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
DiamondMax 10 vs 7200.8

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_cont...=ncq300&page=9


All factors except price hold true to this day.
"GamePC" really implies expert knowledge on PC hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
DiamondMax 10 (aka Maxline III) vs 7200.9

http://storagereview.com/articles/20...00641AS_6.html

7200.9 marginally edges out the Maxtor in Gaming throughput, and is competitive or lower in all other tests (of note, lower in sequential read and similar in access time). Its also noisier than the Maxtor.
Idle noise from 3mm and you want to say it's noisier? Who sits 3mm away from their HDDs? From normal distance away you wouldn't be able to tell a difference.

I do like how the 7200.8 completely crushed the Maxline III in sequential transfer rates even though it was an 8MB cache drive vs a 16MB cache drive. What's with that?
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 07:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allankyoto
My suggestion is to go over and start reading at www.storagereview.com
dude thanks for the link this is going be helpful for me.

Thanks for all the replies please feel free to offer more opinions as I like user input or word of mouth more.

I'll most likely be going RAID 0 unless I can find some really nice fast 400gig + HDD's for a RAID 1. My MB won't allow the other variants of RAID but, that's alright

cheers Mo
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 07:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BY97
"GamePC" really implies expert knowledge on PC hardware.
And some noob on a web forum implies expert knowledge? I don't see you with numbers or reviews here.

Quote:
Idle noise from 3mm and you want to say it's noisier? Who sits 3mm away from their HDDs? From normal distance away you wouldn't be able to tell a difference.
Well if you have a problem with storagereview's testing methodology, feel free to email them about it. The results are for relative comparison, they ARE louder than Maxtors, can't say nothing against that. I've also used the two drives in question and according to MY ears, sitting a reasonable level away from the PC, the Seagate is louder and has a higher pitch whine (aka more noticeable) than the Maxtors.

Quote:
I do like how the 7200.8 completely crushed the Maxline III in sequential transfer rates even though it was an 8MB cache drive vs a 16MB cache drive. What's with that?
400GB drive vs 300GB drive. When you look at 300GB vs 300GB, it's pretty much even in transfer rates:

http://www20.tomshardware.com/storag...tml#conclusion

Read Anantech's review here to see the 7200.8s losing out at other tests:

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/sho...px?i=2396&p=10

The storagereview test's results are also different from their database which shows a less pronounced difference between the two drives. Why the difference in benchmarks? Take a closer look at the results in their database. The 7200.8 lose out to the Maxtor at almost EVERY SINGLE BENCHMARK.

http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html

Take a look at the leader board as well. Before the Hitachi 7K500 came around, Maxtor's Maxline III was the leader. Where's the 7200.8? Guess storagereview.com, one of, if not, THE most emminent storage review site on the web didn't think it was worthy of being a winner.

Seagate fanboy pwnd
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 07:46 PM   #18
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I also recommend Seagate drives!
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 07:46 PM   #19
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And you should know better.
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 07:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
And you should know better.
I have absolutely no experience with MaxLine. Just suggesting what has been working for me.
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 07:58 PM   #21
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I meant bowing down to my superior intarweb skillz

I keed, i keed!
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 08:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
And some noob on a web forum implies expert knowledge? I don't see you with numbers or reviews here.
Noob? That's pretty lame of you. I point out that a gaming site isn't a reputable source and you try to flame me. I'm not new here, but what do you know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
Well if you have a problem with storagereview's testing methodology, feel free to email them about it. The results are for relative comparison, they ARE louder than Maxtors, can't say nothing against that. I've also used the two drives in question and according to MY ears, sitting a reasonable level away from the PC, the Seagate is louder and has a higher pitch whine (aka more noticeable) than the Maxtors.
I have a system with 4 Seagate HDDs in an Antec P180. Two of them are 7200.8 drives. I can't hear them at all. Maybe it's your damn case that sucks because it lacks sound deadening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
400GB drive vs 300GB drive. When you look at 300GB vs 300GB, it's pretty much even in transfer rates:

http://www20.tomshardware.com/storag...tml#conclusion
THG is not a reliable source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
Read Anantech's review here to see the 7200.8s losing out at other tests:

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/sho...px?i=2396&p=10
It also shows them dominating in game loading times and transfer rates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
Seagate fanboy pwnd
No, all Seagate drives are covered with 5 year warranties. Can you say the same for Maxtor?

Now, using verbiage of a child, THAT is "pwnd".
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 08:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BY97
Noob? That's pretty lame of you. I point out that a gaming site isn't a reputable source and you try to flame me. I'm not new here, but what do you know?
And I'm pointing out the fact that you, a noob, by postcount and join-date, has an even less valid opinion than someone who's actually done a review (good or not). Prove me wrong by posting factual data instead of merely your opinion.

Quote:
I have a system with 4 Seagate HDDs in an Antec P180. Two of them are 7200.8 drives. I can't hear them at all. Maybe it's your damn case that sucks because it lacks sound deadening?
And who's to say the OP doesn't have case similar to mine and that noise isn't a consideration for him? The fact is, the 7200.8 aren't as silent. Everyone deserves the whole picture. FYI, I installed them on a W/C'd HTPC setup with case dampening material and rubber-screw mounts. I'm not saying they're jet engines, but they are louder in FACT and OPINION to the Maxtors. hell I think Pixxar said they're louder than his Raptors...

Quote:
THG is not a reliable source.
That's your perogative but again, I don't see you with numbers of your own.

Quote:
It also shows them dominating in game loading times and transfer rates.
Hey, try reading the numbers next time instead of looking at the pretty little bars. 3 secs diff in Doom3 I'll give you that, but 1.1s and <0.1 difference in HL2 and C&C is hardly what I'd call dominating. Maybe "within margin of testing error" or "transparent to user", but dominating lead? Who's ? We've already seen that transfer rates are identical at 300GB capacities. If the OP wanted a performing 400GB+ drive, I'd suggest the Hitachi, not either Seagate or Maxtor.

Quote:
No, all Seagate drives are covered with 5 year warranties. Can you say the same for Maxtor?
We're talking about two drives that both have 5 yr warranties, so what does it matter? Don't tell me you think that's some kind of badge of reliability for Seagate. Ask anyone who RMAs HDs here, they have pretty much similar failure rates.

Quote:
Now, using verbiage of a child, THAT is "pwnd".
If you actually knew how to use "verbiage", I might actually be hurt
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 10:23 PM   #24
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Depends on what you need. Mirrors (raid 1) give you that piece of mind that you have a back up just in case of a HD failure. My Raid 1 at work has had a drive fail. It let me know and I kept working like it never went bad. It auto mirrored to the new replacement drive all by itself. Nice.

Raid 0 is a bit scary, twice the chance of HD failure ruining your day. But it does speed up loading of apps. Not 2x as many claim though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moevan1
dude thanks for the link this is going be helpful for me.

Thanks for all the replies please feel free to offer more opinions as I like user input or word of mouth more.

I'll most likely be going RAID 0 unless I can find some really nice fast 400gig + HDD's for a RAID 1. My MB won't allow the other variants of RAID but, that's alright

cheers Mo
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 10:24 PM   #25
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Man this is good stuff....

I am actually getting some good info out of this. Ideally I would of course pick a Hitachis Deskstar 7k500 for its termendous storage, reliablity and its performance. If I was more on a budget minded sense I'd consider the DiamondMax 10 6l200SO even with only being a 200+gig it'll still be good if I choose to go with a RAID 0 setup.

Toms hardware is fair enough for the most part and I have always taken all reviews with a grain of salt. Hence me posting this thread in the first place. But, when more than one site reviews a product then I look at all of the reviews to form a conclusion of my own.

Toms site downplayed the AMD X2 3800+. He was the only site to do so cause it didn't offer the performance compared to the rest of the lineup. Yet, you ask anyone who owns one or other sites who have done there own reviews say that its a great cheap for the price.

In the end like I have mentioned it really comes down to overall reviews and opinions. Which brings me back to the whole post in the first place.

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Old Nov 9, 2005, 10:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
And I'm pointing out the fact that you, a noob, by postcount and join-date, has an even less valid opinion than someone who's actually done a review (good or not). Prove me wrong by posting factual data instead of merely your opinion.
LOL! You keep calling me a noob. You have no clue, kid.

BTW, you posted the numbers for me. The Seagate drives have faster game load times and transfer rates. Sorry, I could care less how a desktop drive performs with MS Office or an Oracle database.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
And who's to say the OP doesn't have case similar to mine and that noise isn't a consideration for him? The fact is, the 7200.8 aren't as silent. Everyone deserves the whole picture. FYI, I installed them on a W/C'd HTPC setup with case dampening material and rubber-screw mounts. I'm not saying they're jet engines, but they are louder in FACT and OPINION to the Maxtors. hell I think Pixxar said they're louder than his Raptors...
Like I said. I have four (4) Seagate drives in my P180 and I can't hear them. I don't know what crappy case you have that in "fact" they would be considered louder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
We're talking about two drives that both have 5 yr warranties, so what does it matter? Don't tell me you think that's some kind of badge of reliability for Seagate. Ask anyone who RMAs HDs here, they have pretty much similar failure rates.
I've dealt with hundreds of Seagate drives and never had to send any back. I guess you have similar experience with similar numbers with Maxtor?

I'm just pointing out, Seagate's warranty is across all their lines. Maxtor would never do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
If you actually knew how to use "verbiage", I might actually be hurt
Sorry, was that word a little complicated for you?

ver·bi·age
n.
  1. An excess of words for the purpose; wordiness.
  2. The manner in which something is expressed in words: software verbiage.
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 11:14 PM   #27
Zero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BY97
LOL! You keep calling me a noob. You have no clue, kid.

BTW, you posted the numbers for me. The Seagate drives have faster game load times and transfer rates. Sorry, I could care less how a desktop drive performs with MS Office or an Oracle database.
You are a noob, don't give me this crap about "I've been lurking here since 1999". And I won't bother reiterating the argument for you since you seem incapable of grapsing the fact that we're not talking about your narrow-minded view of performance.

Quote:
Like I said. I have four (4) Seagate drives in my P180 and I can't hear them. I don't know what crappy case you have that in "fact" they would be considered louder.
You're providing advice for others, this thread isn't about your own setup or potential lack of hearing. The "fact" is the numerical value given in several reviews showing the Seagate's inferior accoustic performance.

Quote:
I've dealt with hundreds of Seagate drives and never had to send any back. I guess you have similar experience with similar numbers with Maxtor?
Sure, this is the internet, I've dealt with tens of thousands of hard drives.

Quote:
I'm just pointing out, Seagate's warranty is across all their lines. Maxtor would never do that.
Gee, maybe it's because they don't follow similar business models? Maybe the cost to them for providing a longer warranty on all their models isn't worth the PR or profit?

Quote:
Sorry, was that word a little complicated for you?

ver·bi·age
n.
  1. An excess of words for the purpose; wordiness.
  2. The manner in which something is expressed in words: software verbiage.
You can copy and paste, good for you. You might read the definition but you still don't know how to use that word. Go ask someone who's literate or articulate. Noobs with attitudes, go figure...
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Old Nov 10, 2005, 05:42 AM   #28
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get 4 raptor's 74gb in raid0 and start to

a cheaper solution would be 2x200GB or 2x320GB WD disks (caviar - raid edition)
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Old Nov 10, 2005, 06:51 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
You are a noob, don't give me this crap about "I've been lurking here since 1999". And I won't bother reiterating the argument for you since you seem incapable of grapsing the fact that we're not talking about your narrow-minded view of performance.
It's not narrow minded. I accept that Maxtor leads in many of the benchmarks. To be more open minded, how much of a difference in performance are they? A synthetic benchmark doesn't really show that no matter what they try to show. It's like 3DMark, that programs doesn't accurately show how good a graphics card is.

Do some thinking and be less of a noob yourself and it might come to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
You're providing advice for others, this thread isn't about your own setup or potential lack of hearing. The "fact" is the numerical value given in several reviews showing the Seagate's inferior accoustic performance.
LOL! Own potential lack of hearing? Do you have a P180? Do you know what it does?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
Sure, this is the internet, I've dealt with tens of thousands of hard drives.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
Gee, maybe it's because they don't follow similar business models? Maybe the cost to them for providing a longer warranty on all their models isn't worth the PR or profit?
Or maybe because they aren't willing to provide the support knowing their drives are not as reliable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
You can copy and paste, good for you. You might read the definition but you still don't know how to use that word. Go ask someone who's literate or articulate. Noobs with attitudes, go figure...
LOL! Do you say this to everyone with a low post count if they do not agree with you? How Adolf Hitler like of you...
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Old Nov 10, 2005, 08:01 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BY97
It's not narrow minded. I accept that Maxtor leads in many of the benchmarks. To be more open minded, how much of a difference in performance are they? A synthetic benchmark doesn't really show that no matter what they try to show. It's like 3DMark, that programs doesn't accurately show how good a graphics card is.
Read Anandtech's real world test section again.

Quote:
LOL! Own potential lack of hearing? Do you have a P180? Do you know what it does?
Yea good for you, you have a P180. Not everyone looking to buy a hard drive does and not everyone has the same hearing abilities as you. If you don't get this point, your advice is worthless.

Quote:
Or maybe because they aren't willing to provide the support knowing their drives are not as reliable?
If you provide a 5 yr warranty on a HD that craps out in 2 or 3 years, does that make it more reliable than another HD with only 3 year warranty that does the same?

Quote:
LOL! Do you say this to everyone with a low post count if they do not agree with you? How Adolf Hitler like of you...
No, just the ones who don't back up their argument with facts.
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