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Old Nov 24, 2003, 08:18 AM   #1
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Danielsan
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Default Are we idiots?

My flatmate has 2400 xp with a Geforce 2 MX, a processor I by the way gave him since I was tired of his computer being so slow. I use it for various tasks and wanted it to work reasonably well for internet gaming as well.

I tried to persuade him to buy a radeon card, since he was getting NFS underground, but he decided to wait untill he tried the game. To my huge surprise NFS underground runs quite smoothly and looks fairly good on his Geforce 2 mx, actually so do most newer games he has. Ofcourse he doesnt have the eyecandy for the nextgeneration dx9 features, but to be honest, when I am engaged in a tough race on his PC I hardly note the difference, since I also installed his game on my PC to check things out with my radeon 9700pro.

A year ago I swapped my Geforce 3 ti200 ultra for a the radeon card, many driver issues later and 2 rma´d cards I ve started to wonder wether it was worth it. Dont get me wrong, I love my radeon 9700, but the hassle I ve had along with the sleepless nights has been plenty. Especially because of the 2 faulty cards I was very unlucky to aquire first.

With my Geforce 3 ti200 I never had a single problem except for some soundloop crash in RTCW, but otherwise it ran everything without much problem, something which turned out to be very different with the radeon card. Lately however since I dont care much about AA or any other fancy settings my radeon card runs everything pretty well, so at the moment I have no complaints.

My initial reason for buying the 9700pro was stupidity, I wanted my 3d2001 benchmarks to be higher and I felt the need to brag when my friends were over to watch all my amazing demos. I guess we all have a child within us when it comes to certain aspects of life. But am I an idiot? why didnt I just stick to the ti200 and saved myself for the initial trouble and not to mention the money spent.

Have neither of you ever stopped to consider wether this actually is a healthy race? the race for fps. Or should we just consider it as a hobby like everyone else that f.ex. spends thousands dollars on his car instead?
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 10:45 AM   #2
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Umm, no aa??? i would never play without aa and max in game settings, even though I may not get the performance crown.. Im not sure of your intentions, but go back to the geforce and you'll notice the difference more so than looking at your friends computer. Do you feel you need to justify your purchase? Your 9700 is more future proof by far and therefore cost is redundant in comparison.
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 11:00 AM   #3
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wow, u think the gf2mx looks fine when compared to a 9700. do u not notice the bleached color, the sdram, the lack of programmable shaders, the lack of alot of things actually, the only thing carrying his machine along is that athlonxp 2400. i was so thankful to go from a gf3 ti 500 to a 9700, it was like a dream come true. if you dont use aa and af than you are not a true gamer, if u dont care what the game looks like than how can the gameplay be realized properly. i have never understood people who just want higher frame rates and better scores, i just want a nice framerate while running 1024x768x32 with 4xaa and at least 4x tri af and high qual textures and mip. if the 9800xt cant run a game with these settings at least with 50fps with max in game settings as well then i believe the game is poorly coded. for instance deus ex 2, u have to tweak it properly to get an optimal framerate, which usually ends up in you having to sacrifice some part of image quality. why dont you just sell your 9700 and buy a geeforce 3 for 100 bux and be happy again, i doubt u will miss ps 2.0, trilinear filtering, good aa, dx9 gaming, etc. good luck and enjoy your decision whatever it ends up being, peace.
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 11:24 AM   #4
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Default Re: Are we idiots?

Quote:
Originally posted by Danielsan
My flatmate has 2400 xp with a Geforce 2 MX, a processor I by the way gave him since I was tired of his computer being so slow. I use it for various tasks and wanted it to work reasonably well for internet gaming as well.

I tried to persuade him to buy a radeon card, since he was getting NFS underground, but he decided to wait untill he tried the game. To my huge surprise NFS underground runs quite smoothly and looks fairly good on his Geforce 2 mx, actually so do most newer games he has. Ofcourse he doesnt have the eyecandy for the nextgeneration dx9 features, but to be honest, when I am engaged in a tough race on his PC I hardly note the difference, since I also installed his game on my PC to check things out with my radeon 9700pro.

A year ago I swapped my Geforce 3 ti200 ultra for a the radeon card, many driver issues later and 2 rma´d cards I ve started to wonder wether it was worth it. Dont get me wrong, I love my radeon 9700, but the hassle I ve had along with the sleepless nights has been plenty. Especially because of the 2 faulty cards I was very unlucky to aquire first.

With my Geforce 3 ti200 I never had a single problem except for some soundloop crash in RTCW, but otherwise it ran everything without much problem, something which turned out to be very different with the radeon card. Lately however since I dont care much about AA or any other fancy settings my radeon card runs everything pretty well, so at the moment I have no complaints.

My initial reason for buying the 9700pro was stupidity, I wanted my 3d2001 benchmarks to be higher and I felt the need to brag when my friends were over to watch all my amazing demos. I guess we all have a child within us when it comes to certain aspects of life. But am I an idiot? why didnt I just stick to the ti200 and saved myself for the initial trouble and not to mention the money spent.

Have neither of you ever stopped to consider wether this actually is a healthy race? the race for fps. Or should we just consider it as a hobby like everyone else that f.ex. spends thousands dollars on his car instead?
Reading posts like this makes me wonder just how many Brain Cells are being killed off by uncontroled MSG levels in todays common diets.

You know what? you are right. The GF2MX is a *MUCH* better card than your 9700pro. You should sell it right away and get back to that GF2MX. I mean hell who really needs to game at anything over 640x480 or 800x600 with all the games features turned off anyway?

This is just total Nonsense. Forget AA or AF on the 9700pro. What about all the GAMES FEATURES you cant use on a GF2MX or GF3. Or if you can turn one or two on the FPS Tank. Yet here you are claiming that we are all "Idiots" becuase we all dont want to play our games at 800x600 with everything the developers put in the game Turned off. (GF2 mx does not even have pixel shaders)

This is Just So F'ing Ridiculous that I can't even be nice about it.

You have no Business owning a Radeon card. Seriously. You Should get rid of it immidiately.
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 12:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: Re: Are we idiots?

Quote:
Originally posted by Hellbinder
: ...This is just total Nonsense. Forget AA or AF on the 9700pro. What about all the GAMES FEATURES you cant use on a GF2MX or GF3...
What features in todays game can be used on the 9700 and not on the GF3? The only thing I can think of right now is PS 2.0 in Halo, and it does more bad then good.

BTW I love my 9700pro
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 12:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: Re: Re: Are we idiots?

Quote:
Originally posted by Sideshow
What features in todays game can be used on the 9700 and not on the GF3? The only thing I can think of right now is PS 2.0 in Halo, and it does more bad then good.

BTW I love my 9700pro
PS1.4
and IMHO you shold buy a vidcard with your monitor specs.. atleast 50% of the choice is will it render sharp [email protected] xxxx/xxxx @xxhz. or if ya have a 9800xt(love it) i can run 1600/1200 at 100hz with my sony with most if not all the eycandy and ownz a gf4mx(gf2) running at 640/480 with ugly on. i like candy not ugly.
but if i had a 15in packerdBell my 9800xt would be lame.. id buy the monitor first.

Last edited by karlotta : Nov 24, 2003 at 12:46 PM.
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 12:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: Re: Re: Are we idiots?

Quote:
Originally posted by Sideshow
What features in todays game can be used on the 9700 and not on the GF3? The only thing I can think of right now is PS 2.0 in Halo, and it does more bad then good.

BTW I love my 9700pro
PS 1.4, PS 2.0, VS 2.0

More importantly.. If you use Pixel Shader effects your FPS TANK on a GF3. Even Games like Pirates of the Carrabean. Turn on the water effects in that one and see what happens. Or Morrowind. Turning a Feature on and having it run at less that 10 FPS is simply not an option.

More importantly we are talking about a GF2MX Vs. a 9700pro. Not a GF3. There are a whole SLEW of features that the GF2MX does not support. The few it can turn it into a slide show.

If you want all your new games to look like DX7 games then more power to you. IMO such an individual has no business even owning a modern Radeon card.
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 01:06 PM   #8
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But why? I mean, why do we even bother buying new video cards? Just to make our games a little faster or a little prettier? What's the point, we're just gonna die some day anyway. It's all a big waste of effort *jumps off a cliff*

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Old Nov 24, 2003, 01:06 PM   #9
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that is what i was getting at hellbinder. thread starter u have no business owning one at all, no offense but if u cant see the difference in a gf2mx and a radeon 9700 even if u love your 9700 to death, why do u love it, what does it do u for u with out enabling any of its features? just wondering what u get out of gaming if it looks like crap and u have a 9700 but dont enable what it was built for. good luck with life, btw, would u sell your ferrari for a volkswagen? since both of them get you there but different speeds and styles, is the guy who bought a ferrari an idiot because he didnt keep his volkswagen since it could get him to the same place and he didnt really care about style and how he got there as long as he did get there? is he an idiot, or is it your idea that is idiotic? no offense just a question.
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 01:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: Are we idiots?

Quote:
Originally posted by Danielsan
My flatmate has 2400 xp with a Geforce 2 MX, a processor I by the way gave him since I was tired of his computer being so slow. I use it for various tasks and wanted it to work reasonably well for internet gaming as well.

I tried to persuade him to buy a radeon card, since he was getting NFS underground, but he decided to wait untill he tried the game. To my huge surprise NFS underground runs quite smoothly and looks fairly good on his Geforce 2 mx, actually so do most newer games he has. Ofcourse he doesnt have the eyecandy for the nextgeneration dx9 features, but to be honest, when I am engaged in a tough race on his PC I hardly note the difference, since I also installed his game on my PC to check things out with my radeon 9700pro.

A year ago I swapped my Geforce 3 ti200 ultra for a the radeon card, many driver issues later and 2 rma´d cards I ve started to wonder wether it was worth it. Dont get me wrong, I love my radeon 9700, but the hassle I ve had along with the sleepless nights has been plenty. Especially because of the 2 faulty cards I was very unlucky to aquire first.

With my Geforce 3 ti200 I never had a single problem except for some soundloop crash in RTCW, but otherwise it ran everything without much problem, something which turned out to be very different with the radeon card. Lately however since I dont care much about AA or any other fancy settings my radeon card runs everything pretty well, so at the moment I have no complaints.

My initial reason for buying the 9700pro was stupidity, I wanted my 3d2001 benchmarks to be higher and I felt the need to brag when my friends were over to watch all my amazing demos. I guess we all have a child within us when it comes to certain aspects of life. But am I an idiot? why didnt I just stick to the ti200 and saved myself for the initial trouble and not to mention the money spent.

Have neither of you ever stopped to consider wether this actually is a healthy race? the race for fps. Or should we just consider it as a hobby like everyone else that f.ex. spends thousands dollars on his car instead?
I noticed a big difference when I upgraded from a GF4 MX 420 to a Radeon 8500...2D was better (like night and day), and my games ran a whole lot smoother, not to mention DX 8.1 support. My move to a Radeon 9700 Pro was even better. You may have had a bad experience with the move to a Radeon 9700 Pro, but I have had zero problems.

AA/AF is anyone's personal preference. Some people like high frame rates in first person shooters, but if you do not use any featurs the 9700 Pro has to offer, why'd you buy it?
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 02:59 PM   #11
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see what happens, when you talk badly about bragging rights?
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 03:02 PM   #12
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Default Re: Re: Are we idiots?

Quote:
Originally posted by Hellbinder
Reading posts like this makes me wonder just how many Brain Cells are being killed off by uncontroled MSG levels in todays common diets.

You know what? you are right. The GF2MX is a *MUCH* better card than your 9700pro. You should sell it right away and get back to that GF2MX. I mean hell who really needs to game at anything over 640x480 or 800x600 with all the games features turned off anyway?

This is just total Nonsense. Forget AA or AF on the 9700pro. What about all the GAMES FEATURES you cant use on a GF2MX or GF3. Or if you can turn one or two on the FPS Tank. Yet here you are claiming that we are all "Idiots" becuase we all dont want to play our games at 800x600 with everything the developers put in the game Turned off. (GF2 mx does not even have pixel shaders)

This is Just So F'ing Ridiculous that I can't even be nice about it.

You have no Business owning a Radeon card. Seriously. You Should get rid of it immidiately.
calm down
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 03:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bexster
see what happens, when you talk badly about bragging rights?
This has ZIPPO to do with bragging rights!!

This is about playing your Games with all the games features set at full at a reasonable FPS or playing your games at 800x600 with everything in game turned to low or off.

According to this view game development should have stopped in 1998.
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 03:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: Re: Re: Are we idiots?

Quote:
Originally posted by shockwave203
calm down
No...

You get fired up.
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 03:07 PM   #15
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sure, keep on telling yourself that..
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 03:12 PM   #16
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Default Re: Re: Are we idiots?

Quote:
Originally posted by Hellbinder

You have no Business owning a Radeon card. Seriously. You Should get rid of it immidiately.




Come on, give me a break!
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 03:23 PM   #17
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Some of you may have missunderstood the point of my post. I actually only bought the radeon 9700 so I could get higher framerates in 3dmark and with the thought in mind that I would have a GPU that would last me a while. Since I dont use any of the advanced features of the radeon then from my perspective I do feel like an idiot, I could have held on to the geforce 3 and bought a much better radeon card when the geforce 3 couldnt cope with modern games anymore.

Am I the only one doing this? Absolutely not, my next door neighbour bought a 9800xt and all he plays is counterstrike so what has he achieved? Now his 3dmark scores are definately better than mine.

For those wanting to use the full features a radeon has to offer I understand their purchase of a highend videocard, but for those like me who just want to play with with 1280x1024 and decent image quality an upgrade should probably only be necessary when the old graphics card gives up.

On the other hand I am not saying that I regret having my 9700 pro, I know it will last me a good while, and fortunately I dont have the need to brag about 3dmark scores anymore, which in my oppinion is a good thing.
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 03:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danielsan
Some of you may have missunderstood the point of my post. I actually only bought the radeon 9700 so I could get higher framerates in 3dmark and with the thought in mind that I would have a GPU that would last me a while. Since I dont use any of the advanced features of the radeon then from my perspective I do feel like an idiot, I could have held on to the geforce 3 and bought a much better radeon card when the geforce 3 couldnt cope with modern games anymore.

Am I the only one doing this? Absolutely not, my next door neighbour bought a 9800xt and all he plays is counterstrike so what has he achieved? Now his 3dmark scores are definately better than mine.

For those wanting to use the full features a radeon has to offer I understand their purchase of a highend videocard, but for those like me who just want to play with with 1280x1024 and decent image quality an upgrade should probably only be necessary when the old graphics card gives up.

On the other hand I am not saying that I regret having my 9700 pro, I know it will last me a good while, and fortunately I dont have the need to brag about 3dmark scores anymore, which in my oppinion is a good thing.
In that case, yes, you and your friend are idiots. Sorry, but you asked
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 03:54 PM   #19
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you bought a 9700Pro with intentions of not using any AA/AF? talk about not knowing what you're buying.. send it over to me and I'll give you my 8500LE, it's alot faster then that TI200..
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 04:57 PM   #20
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Default Re: Are we idiots?

Quote:
Originally posted by Danielsan
My flatmate has 2400 xp with a Geforce 2 MX, a processor I by the way gave him since I was tired of his computer being so slow. I use it for various tasks and wanted it to work reasonably well for internet gaming as well.

I tried to persuade him to buy a radeon card, since he was getting NFS underground, but he decided to wait untill he tried the game. To my huge surprise NFS underground runs quite smoothly and looks fairly good on his Geforce 2 mx, actually so do most newer games he has. Ofcourse he doesnt have the eyecandy for the nextgeneration dx9 features, but to be honest, when I am engaged in a tough race on his PC I hardly note the difference, since I also installed his game on my PC to check things out with my radeon 9700pro.

A year ago I swapped my Geforce 3 ti200 ultra for a the radeon card, many driver issues later and 2 rma´d cards I ve started to wonder wether it was worth it. Dont get me wrong, I love my radeon 9700, but the hassle I ve had along with the sleepless nights has been plenty. Especially because of the 2 faulty cards I was very unlucky to aquire first.

With my Geforce 3 ti200 I never had a single problem except for some soundloop crash in RTCW, but otherwise it ran everything without much problem, something which turned out to be very different with the radeon card. Lately however since I dont care much about AA or any other fancy settings my radeon card runs everything pretty well, so at the moment I have no complaints.

My initial reason for buying the 9700pro was stupidity, I wanted my 3d2001 benchmarks to be higher and I felt the need to brag when my friends were over to watch all my amazing demos. I guess we all have a child within us when it comes to certain aspects of life. But am I an idiot? why didnt I just stick to the ti200 and saved myself for the initial trouble and not to mention the money spent.

Have neither of you ever stopped to consider wether this actually is a healthy race? the race for fps. Or should we just consider it as a hobby like everyone else that f.ex. spends thousands dollars on his car instead?
Lol, I love what you're saying, and I know where it's coming from, but I'm no idiot, my last vid card was a trident creation that held up well if you didn't want to play games, and so, I didn't for 5 years, lol. Software outgrew my comp, now that I've got a new one, I had to get something that would last.
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 05:26 PM   #21
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In your case, you are an idiot for buying the Radeon 9700 Pro too early ... You should have waited for Radeon 9500 or Radeon 9600 series ...

Otherwise, I can say you pretty much hit on-target on what most of the people feel after they switch to ATI.
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 06:06 PM   #22
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I owns both the GF2mx400 and the 9600 pro. And even on my weak CPU I can clearly tell the difference between mine two cards. It is not the big jump in speed. It is the image quality the blows me away.

So what is the point of running the game faster and smoother and looking good? Well, I guess there is really no point, if you ask this kind of questions.
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 06:20 PM   #23
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I've heard of this new console called 'Colecovision'. Perhaps you should trade your 9700Pro for that?

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Old Nov 24, 2003, 11:14 PM   #24
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I love getting FSAA running in my games, yeah, it isn't a massive difference in quality, but it looks nicer, and isn't that what I was paying for?
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Old Nov 25, 2003, 01:15 AM   #25
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If you can't see the difference between a gf2mx and a 9700 pro you should sell the 9700 pro and use the money on new glasses.

If you bought the card just to score higher on 3dmark, ya you are an idiot.

The fact is your friend will need to upgrade to play future games (hl2, doom3, deus X2), you are probably good for another year or two.
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Old Nov 25, 2003, 01:47 AM   #26
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if it makes me an idoit to make my games run fast while making them look great then get me a dunce cap!
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Old Nov 25, 2003, 01:49 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by mbeeston
if it makes me an idoit to make my games run fast while making them look great then get me a dunce cap!
NP, pm your address.

Seriously, though. There's a huge difference between the two, like day and night. LOL.
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Old Nov 25, 2003, 02:40 AM   #28
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sniff sniff .. whats that smell .. .... . . .. . .. Oh its Hellbinder Kicking some ASS .. FIRE FIRE.

No this is really a Dumb thread ... my brother just sold his Geforce 2 MX for a 9100 128mb card. Hes cheap. But I can see a major major difference in cards. First off he can play NWN on full detail .. other then before its was 800x600 Nothing on .. every texture turned off.

trust me dude .. if you think your ti4200 is better, then stop sniffing that glue.

Second .. i think you posted that in the wrong forum .. what were you thinking, we all would praise.

But you have Balls i give you that.

Last edited by the chase : Nov 25, 2003 at 02:43 AM.
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Old Nov 25, 2003, 02:41 AM   #29
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I'm not quite sure why everyone else's panties are in such a bunch, but I know exactly what you mean Danielsan. I went from a Geforce DDR to a 5800U and I was thinking I was going to get completely blown away considering all the hype I'd hearing about dx9, hell even dx8.1. Other than being able to complete all the tests in 3DM now, I was kinda disappointed. Sure games like NOLF2 and Unreal2 looked better and played more smoothly, but really when you're playing the game how much of a difference do you actually notice? Just because you're running the game dx7 specs, doesnt mean you cant enjoy the damn thing. The visual experience is only one part of the game, but apparently to many of you, its amost all of it.

The real reason so many are a little peeved is becaues by saying "i dont need the greatest graphics' he's trivializing the hobby many of us spend many many hours on. For some people the hobby is the gaming; for others its the hardware and tech. To people like Hellbender (and his 7074 3D2003 Marks and 48,108 Aquamarks ), anyone who doesnt worship the smoothest edges and shadiest renderings are stupid fools who must be missing many a brain cell.

Who's the guy having more fun: the guy playing at 800*600 with meager dx7 graphics and owning a multi player game of NFSU or the guy who has the kickass system playing at 1600, 8aa/16as and getting trounced?

Obvously people have different value systems. No need to jump all over the guy.

Last edited by chupacabras : Nov 25, 2003 at 02:47 AM.
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Old Nov 25, 2003, 02:46 AM   #30
the chase
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Oh man i wish i still had my bench marks for the geforce2 MX ... i got like 577 in 3dmarks 2003.
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