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Old May 11, 2020, 08:39 PM   #661
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SIrPauly
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40-70 percent faster sounds impressive if true. Mentioned denoising on the Tensor cores. Will see how accurate these rumors may be and how good his sources are.
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Old May 11, 2020, 08:40 PM   #662
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Who cares about all this. Wait for reviews.
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Old May 11, 2020, 10:05 PM   #663
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That rumored Rtx MineCraft number was impressive based on denoising currently is a big percentage hit in that title.
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Old May 11, 2020, 10:10 PM   #664
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Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
That rumored Rtx MineCraft number was impressive based on denoising currently is a big percentage hit in that title.
all that maters is can it run cyberpunk 2077 4k/60+

was interesting that they will be out a quarter after AMD all but maybe a $3000+ Titan
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Old May 11, 2020, 10:40 PM   #665
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So 40% performance increase in traditional rasterization and up to 70% performance increase over 2080TI with RTX enabled on games that support it. He says textures that would take up 16GB or VRAM will fit into a 12GB footprint with a toggleable switch for Tensor core compression that could cause some performance loss. 3 fans on the founders edition card. Sounds pretty good actually. Having to wait until next year thanks to a bunch of BS sucks but I doubt anything better will come out between now and then.

Still very interested in the Titan though. I will lose 23% performance in raw cuda core rendering over a 3080TI SLI setup for my animation projects but it could have other advantages outside of having more VRAM. Possibly a higher memory bit controller. It would cut my RT and tensor core counts down considerably though so the loss may be too much for me to deal with.

I would say on average SLI scaling in games is between 50% and 90% when it works. So an average of 70%. If the Titan can deliver 35% more than a 3080TI, I'll probably buy it and do away with SLI for the first time since the ATI X1900XTX. Having a dependable 35% that works on all games without having to fight and build my own profiles while having less power draw, heat, and noise would also be a boon at this point. Throw in the 24GB of Vram and that would be a great card. With 2500 more cuda cores than a 3080TI and way higher VRAM bandwitdth it's possible we could see something like that. All speculation of course, I'm not going to get my hopes up but I'm looking forward to seeing some details on it. 2x 3080TI's would be serious monsters for 3D art and if a game properly supports SLI I would think 8K wouldn't be a problem so it will be a hard decision.

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Old May 11, 2020, 11:19 PM   #666
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well if he is right and a navi 2x is 50% faster than a 2080 ti

sold .
i will buy AMD this time and if they get CFX working in cyberpunk 2077 maybe two


but i think we need enough salt to embalm a mummy elephant on this whole thing
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Old May 11, 2020, 11:24 PM   #667
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
well if he is right and a navi 2x is 50% faster than a 2080 ti

sold .
i will by AMD and if they get CFX working in cyberpunk 2077 maybe two


but i think we need enough salt to embalm a mummy elephant on this whole thing
ha, yeah I agree. He sounds confident in his sources but we won't know what is what until Nvidia decides to tell. It will be interesting to see what AMD does on it's pricing since they have purchased themselves a launch without competition. They will get to decide to either lower prices or push them up and NVidia will follow their lead this time.
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Old May 12, 2020, 12:05 AM   #668
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Originally Posted by the_sextein View Post
ha, yeah I agree.
Quote:
He sounds confident in his sources
but we won't know what is what until Nvidia decides to tell. It will be interesting to see what AMD does on it's pricing since they have purchased themselves a launch without competition. They will get to decide to either lower prices or push them up and NVidia will follow their lead this time.
his sources could be a planed leak by Nvidia and total BS to draw something out of AMD

would not be the first time Nvidia ,Intel or AMD has put out false leaks

but i do think Nvidia has a bee in their bonnet about AMD
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Old May 12, 2020, 12:14 AM   #669
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and Nvidia just got a new headache

Quote:
Intel Might Outsource 2nd Gen Xe GPUs to TSMC’s 5nm Foundries
https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel-...5nm-foundries/
Quote:
as per reports, the Xe graphics cards for gamers and mainstream users will be based on TSMC’s 5nm process, the same as NVIDIA’s Hopper and AMD’s Navi 3x.
and maybe also AMD as Apple is on that also


..........

Quote:
TSMC 5nm Products Leaked: AMD Zen 4 CPUs, RDNA3 GPUs, NVIDIA Hopper and Potentially An ‘Intel Xe’ GPU
https://wccftech.com/tsmc-5nm-produc...-intel-xe-gpu/

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Old May 12, 2020, 12:30 AM   #670
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and the new game consoles

Quote:
Ubisoft Confirms Assassin’s Creed Valhalla Running at [email protected] on Xbox Series X
https://wccftech.com/ubisoft-confirm...xbox-series-x/

better but not near
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Old May 12, 2020, 12:34 AM   #671
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I think NV already pre-emptively bought up all of the extra 5nm capacity at TSMC. AMD has a custom 5nm process they are working on with TSMC but they likely don't have the capacity they need for their CPU and GPU product launches. At least AMD's console trash will not be dragging the PC market down with 5nm. Hopefully Intel will get it's own 5nm going eventually. Apple will likely move past 5nm before everyone else which will open up a big hole for AMD, Nvidia and possibly Intel if they need it but that won't be next year.
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Old May 12, 2020, 12:37 AM   #672
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
and the new game consoles



https://wccftech.com/ubisoft-confirm...xbox-series-x/

better but not near
That is what makes me think consoles will struggle with ray tracing performance. If consoles are at 2080 super levels they will struggle at 4k 30FPS. 4K 60FPS was never a realistic possibility because they would need more than a 2080TI which pushes 4K 45FPS. I simply don't expect consoles to push 4K 60FPS on last year's AAA titles. Add ray tracing and it's game over. They will probably have to do internal 1440P in combination with some sort of fake 4K upscale just to achieve playable FPS with ray tracing enabled. Most game developers will push 4k 30FPS without ray tracing if I had to guess. There will be exceptions like Mortal Combat ect but most blockbuster titles won't be able to utilize it if you ask me.

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Old May 12, 2020, 12:38 AM   #673
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I think NV already pre-emptively bought up all of the extra 5nm capacity at TSMC. AMD has a custom 5nm process they are working on with TSMC but they likely don't have the capacity they need for their CPU and GPU product launches. At least AMD's console trash will not be dragging the PC market down with 5nm. Hopefully Intel will get it's own 5nm going eventually. Apple will likely move past 5nm before everyone else which will open up a big hole for AMD, Nvidia and possibly Intel if they need it but that won't be next year.
but i think AMD had already ordered what it needed on 5nm months ago when they set up that custom 5nm process
long before NV bought up the extra 5nm capacity or last of it


i think they will both be fine on 5nm unless NV trys to get a better price again
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Old May 12, 2020, 12:47 AM   #674
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but i think AMD had already ordered what it needed on 5nm months ago when they set up that custom 5nm process
long before NV bought up the extra 5nm capacity or last of it


i think they will both be fine on 5nm unless NV trys to get a better price again
It's possible but AMD is dealing with much more than Nvidia because of their server CPU line and mainstream CPU line on top of their GPU line and they won't be getting any help from Microsoft and Sony on their 5nm products. I'm not sure they have the money to buy all of that in advance by themselves but it's possible. I'm not an insider and have no idea. I do think the problems that are going on right now are because of the console launches that are happening at the same time as everything else.
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Old May 12, 2020, 12:54 AM   #675
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Originally Posted by the_sextein View Post
It's possible but AMD is dealing with much more than Nvidia because of their server CPU line and mainstream CPU line on top of their GPU line. I'm not sure they have the money to buy all of that in advance but it's possible. I'm not an insider and have no idea. I do think the problems that hare going on right now are because of the console launches that are happening at the same time as everything else.
yes console launches are going to eat up a ton of wafers

Global Xbox One Sales Close to 35 Million how many wafers is that times 2 for PS5 and xbox series x
and most likely make TSMC a lot more money than NV gup's


and 5nm will free that up consoles won't go 5nm fore a few years

and being smaller MCM chiplets and lower waste should free up a lot more with AMD & NV maybe Intel

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Old May 12, 2020, 02:14 AM   #676
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ha, yeah I agree. He sounds confident in his sources but we won't know what is what until Nvidia decides to tell. It will be interesting to see what AMD does on it's pricing since they have purchased themselves a launch without competition. They will get to decide to either lower prices or push them up and NVidia will follow their lead this time.
I don't see AMD pushing prices up. At worst they meet Nvidia's pricing from last time. AMD doesn't have the mindshare in graphics to be pushing prices up right now.
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Old May 12, 2020, 02:22 AM   #677
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It's possible but AMD is dealing with much more than Nvidia because of their server CPU line and mainstream CPU line on top of their GPU line and they won't be getting any help from Microsoft and Sony on their 5nm products. I'm not sure they have the money to buy all of that in advance by themselves but it's possible. I'm not an insider and have no idea. I do think the problems that are going on right now are because of the console launches that are happening at the same time as everything else.
Keep in mind that CPU dies are a lot smaller than GPUs. A Zen 2 chiplet is literally 1/10th the size of a 2080 Ti's, granted some CPUs have two chiplets. The smaller size also means higher yields, so that magnifies the difference even more. In any case, manufacturing capacity goes a lot farther with CPUs.

That does raise the question though of how AMD is going to allocate their manufacturing between CPUs and GPUs? Depending on demand for CPUs, you could end up with a situation where it isn't worth their while to produce many GPUs at all. At the same time, they probably do want to maintain a presence in GPUs, and claw back some market share, just in case Intel catches up with them in the future and things aren't so rosy on the CPU side.
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Old May 12, 2020, 03:17 AM   #678
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I don't see AMD pushing prices up. At worst they meet Nvidia's pricing from last time. AMD doesn't have the mindshare in graphics to be pushing prices up right now.
i don't think AMD will go over 800 to 1000 even if the navi 2x is 50% + faster than a 2080 ti
maybe if it was 50% faster than a 3080 ti and they knew it both highly unlikely

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Keep in mind that CPU dies are a lot smaller than GPUs. A Zen 2 chiplet is literally 1/10th the size of a 2080 Ti's, granted some CPUs have two chiplets. The smaller size also means higher yields, so that magnifies the difference even more. In any case, manufacturing capacity goes a lot farther with CPUs.

That does raise the question though of how AMD is going to allocate their manufacturing between CPUs and GPUs? Depending on demand for CPUs, you could end up with a situation where it isn't worth their while to produce many GPUs at all. At the same time, they probably do want to maintain a presence in GPUs, and claw back some market share, just in case Intel catches up with them in the future and things aren't so rosy on the CPU side.
5nm hopper is mcm two or more small chiplet gpu's
it may need SLI or something in like it in drivers = unknown



AMD 5nm navi 3x will be the same


unknown if navi 2x is the same

but navi 2x = 2 GPU's and navi 3x = 3 GPU's ???? unknown

would free up a lot of 5nm wafers with higher yields

but all will most likely need HBM so high prices
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Old May 12, 2020, 05:18 AM   #679
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Old May 12, 2020, 12:25 PM   #680
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and the new game consoles



https://wccftech.com/ubisoft-confirm...xbox-series-x/

better but not near

4k 30fps


And this is the most powerful console that will be out, PS5 will be worse.


Yeah, that's what i thought.
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Old May 12, 2020, 12:58 PM   #681
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4k 30fps


And this is the most powerful console that will be out, PS5 will be worse.


Yeah, that's what i thought.
well it is Ubisoft

not know for the best optimized games and its DRM

other AAA games on Xbox Series X may hit 4k/45 maybe
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Old May 12, 2020, 01:02 PM   #682
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well it is Ubisoft

not know for the best optimized games and its DRM

other AAA games on Xbox Series X may hit 4k/45 maybe
At medium settings.
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Old May 12, 2020, 01:10 PM   #683
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At medium settings.
not that i really care i bought a ps4 and played one game one it

i still hate game console controllers and the in game crap to use a controller

till i can use a keyboard and mouse they can F off


.......

but 4k/30 is not going to put any pressure on NV to lower prices
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Old May 12, 2020, 05:10 PM   #684
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not that i really care i bought a ps4 and played one game one it

i still hate game console controllers and the in game crap to use a controller

till i can use a keyboard and mouse they can F off


.......

but 4k/30 is not going to put any pressure on NV to lower prices
It's going to force Nvidia to make mid range cards that can do 4K 45FPS with all high settings. Which is why the 3060 is likely to match a 2080TI. It may not lower prices but it will at least push performance levels up a few notches to match console performance. With SLI dead and GPU launches coming every two years it has allowed consoles to nearly match a current high end PC and with the shortage of TSMC capacity Nvidia is going to have a hard time outperforming a console by more than 15FPS at the same settings and resolution until next year. That's sad. PS5 is coming in October.
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Old May 12, 2020, 05:15 PM   #685
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Really sounds if you want a 3080 this year be ready to preorder it, Or if AMD comes out second hope that they match it. I dont like the waiting game as until recently AMD has disappointed far to much. Maybe Ryzen was the turning point, my guess is RDNA 2 will be close but I dont know if worth waiting for if out 2nd.
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Old May 12, 2020, 06:12 PM   #686
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Originally Posted by the_sextein View Post
It's going to force Nvidia to make mid range cards that can do 4K 45FPS with all high settings. Which is why the 3060 is likely to match a 2080TI. It may not lower prices but it will at least push performance levels up a few notches to match console performance. With SLI dead and GPU launches coming every two years it has allowed consoles to nearly match a current high end PC and with the shortage of TSMC capacity Nvidia is going to have a hard time outperforming a console by more than 15FPS at the same settings and resolution until next year. That's sad. PS5 is coming in October.
Oh, so it's PC's that needs to match console performance. Okay...

The games that push a 2080Ti at 4k 45fps isn't going to magically run better with next gen consoles with an APU, but keep thinking that. You're still going to see reduced settings on consoles to keep up, because current consoles can't even come close without sacrificing details or relying on dynamic resolution or half rendering hacks like checkerboard. Next gen consoles will give you MAYBE 1080Ti levels visuals and performance at best.

If you wanna take Valhalla as an example their target is 4k 30fps . The engine isn't going to be that much different than what Odyssey was over Origins. You can already get 4k 60fps locked on a 2080Ti with Odyssey with Ultra settings and low AA (high AA is what reduces performance at 4k to below 60fps), it's not needed at 4k resolution. That's what I played Odyssey with (and still playing, game is so damn big).

Really doubt Valhalla will get the "Ultra" treatment on consoles.

I don't know why you think this era of console vs PCs will be any different than the last, or last dozen
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Old May 12, 2020, 07:50 PM   #687
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I was talking about mid range PC parts. A 2060 can't compete with a next gen console so they are being forced to make the 3060 as fast as a 2080TI to beat consoles that are gaming at 4K 30FPS. If they have to raise the 3060 50% higher to match consoles then we will see a 50% increase across the board all the way up to the 3080TI. The 5700 didn't push anything and as a result we have had little or no progress and insane prices. It's not all about you and your 2080TI. I'm surprised that you would be laughing at console fans who will be gaming within 15FPS of your system for 1/10th the price.

I'm looking forward to the new cards as much as the next guy but it's hard to deny that consoles have intruded into the realm of PC gaming much further than ever before with this next launch. It's the consoles that are making this bit of competition between AMD and Nvidia which is driving this release harder than usual.

If AMD makes a mid range GPU that can compete with high end GPU's and stick it in a console then Nvidia will have to answer at the high end even if AMD doesn't. Though I suspect they will. I expect the money tree to be shaken and provide a nice boost like this every time a new console comes out. It's too bad AMD hasn't been doing this on the PC on their own over the last decade but I suspect it has to do with the financial position they have been in.
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Old May 12, 2020, 08:03 PM   #688
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I was talking about mid range PC parts. A 2060 can't compete with a next gen console so they are being forced to make the 3060 as fast as a 2080TI to beat consoles that are gaming at 4K 30FPS. If they have to raise the 3060 50% higher to match consoles then we will see a 50% increase across the board all the way up to the 3080TI. The 5700 didn't push anything and as a result we have had little or no progress and insane prices. It's not all about you and your 2080TI. I'm surprised that you would be laughing at console fans who will be gaming within 15FPS of your system for 1/10th the price.

I'm looking forward to the new cards as much as the next guy but it's hard to deny that consoles have intruded into the realm of PC gaming much further than ever before with this next launch. It's the consoles that are making this bit of competition between AMD and Nvidia which is driving this release harder than usual.

If AMD makes a mid range GPU that can compete with high end GPU's and stick it in a console then Nvidia will have to answer at the high end even if AMD doesn't. Though I suspect they will. I expect the money tree to be shaken and provide a nice boost like this every time a new console comes out. It's too back AMD hasn't been doing this on the PC on their own over the last decade.
I'm not even convinced of the midrange argument. In fact, I don't think it's a direct comparison.

A 2060 Super costs what, $399 retail? Isn't the Playstation 5/Xbox 1SX expected cost more than that? From the various articles I read $500 is looking to be the bare minimum, possibly even higher like the PS3 was at launch. Thus, the 2060S argument seems to be a bit of disservice to "mainstream" PC gamers who are likely going to be in the 2070S/2080S range.

And by the time the PS5/Xbox1SX does release, there will be a $399 variant of next gen cards. And if you wanna believe those rumors, a next gen $399 Ampere card is going to smoke a next gen console. Sorry but I don't see the next consoles being in any sort of advantage other than pricing against high end PC gaming cards (but you get what you pay for. I still see settings being cut down for consoles or at the very least extra higher detail options for PC gamers), or possibly game exclusives.


Unfortunately it's the same old fortune telling argument that always fall short. Consoles always beat PC gaming right before they launch. And then they actually don't.
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Old May 12, 2020, 08:13 PM   #689
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You have to consider that a gaming PC has more components than a GPU and that $500 is for the entire console system. Nvidia will certainly be pushing developers to deliver the PC platform exclusive special effects in the form of RTX and with more than 4x the RTX performance I suspect consoles who would be forced to drop resolution to supply them will fall behind. However, Nvidia is going to need to outperform consoles in the mid range because that is where all the money is made on the GPU market and RTX alone will not be enough and I think they know that.

I'm not trying to say the PC will be inferior but it will have an insignificant advantage until Nvidia can deliver their cards and I have never seen something like this before. I have always had SLI so I am used to having 2X the performance of consoles even at launch but these days....and with the delays and AMD not delivering for 4 years and then suddenly dropping console hardware that can compete with high end PC hardware....

It's pretty sad from my perspective and I think it's intentional but I have argued with AMD fans enough in here. I guess we can all just pretend that competition has nothing to do with progress and pricing and ignore all of the damage that has been done over the last decade. I know I feel discouraged as a PC gamer who has always bought the best. I intend to buy the best this time as well but I am going to need to see competition like what we have right now and substantial gains like what these rumors are stating for me to stay involved. I won't buy lazy card launches with insignificant advantages in the future.
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Old May 12, 2020, 08:24 PM   #690
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Originally Posted by Nascar24 View Post
Really sounds if you want a 3080 this year be ready to preorder it, Or if AMD comes out second hope that they match it. I dont like the waiting game as until recently AMD has disappointed far to much. Maybe Ryzen was the turning point, my guess is RDNA 2 will be close but I dont know if worth waiting for if out 2nd.
i think AMD will be out first and faster than 3080 non ti

NV will wait till navi 2x is out and all reviews are done and see if they have to crank up the clocks on the 3080 ti to stay ahead of AMD and the 3080 clocks to be closer to navi 2x
if that guy is right and navi 2x is 50% faster than a 2080 ti it will be very close at the top this time

if navi 2x does not perform well NV will release the next week at normal clocks

the last thing NV wants is to release first and let AMD crank up the clocks slap on a AOI water cooler like fury x and beat them with a navi 2x XT at a lower price point

Last edited by bill dennison : May 12, 2020 at 08:32 PM.
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