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Old Jun 19, 2018, 12:52 PM   #31
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A Titan V is out the question

It would have been nice if games still supported SLI, my 1080's would handle 4k 60fps just fine.

The 1080Ti is just a hold me over until the next gen comes out. If I can't run a game above 50fps, I'll just drop down to 1440p for now or scale back some graphic options for 4k.

Prey is running great at 4k with options maxed out except for AA. Assassins Creed Origins Curse of the Pharoah I will have to make some concessions at 4k, or continue playing at 1440p like I did with the 1080.

I wanted to play Kingdom Come after that, but looks like that chokes a 1080Ti at 4k. 1440p performance looks fine though.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages..._review,5.html
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Old Jun 19, 2018, 01:10 PM   #32
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I am going to have to do a little processor speed guide for you, just too show you how much performance you are missing even at 4K.
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Old Jun 19, 2018, 02:19 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
I am going to have to do a little processor speed guide for you, just too show you how much performance you are missing even at 4K.
Please do. I've read enough reviews, benchmarks, and forum posts to last a lifetime with no concrete answers on how much CPU architecture and speed really affect framerate in 4k. From what I've gathered so far, it's not much.

I'd LOVE to be proven wrong. I want a reason to upgrade.
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Old Jun 19, 2018, 03:11 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
I am going to have to do a little processor speed guide for you, just too show you how much performance you are missing even at 4K.
You're going to show that 3840x2160 is CPU limited and not GPU limited? OK, but that's going to be a mighty hill to climb.

Looking at this CPU scaling chart for Kingdom Come Deliverance, you can see that:

- No matter CPU you use (Intel or Ryzen)
- No matter what the clock speed is
- No matter how many cores you have

The performance converges at 4k to be exactly the same when using a single 1080Ti graphics card.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages..._review,8.html


I am coming from two GTX 1080's, which is more powerful than a single 1080Ti when SLI is supported. I never saw any CPU limitations at 4k with 1080 SLI, everything I threw at it was 4k 60fps locked. So why when I suddenly see some slow downs at 4k with the 1080Ti, it's suddenly the CPU's fault and not the GPU?

It's moot point though, I'll see for myself when I upgrade. Waiting on that 8 core 8700k to drop.
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Old Jun 19, 2018, 03:16 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
I am going to have to do a little processor speed guide for you, just too show you how much performance you are missing even at 4K.
http://www.legitreviews.com/intel-co...wdown_192508/4

1 to 4 fps at 4k at most with max settings you can get at 4k

maybe 2 to 3 more if you OC the crap out of the intel but not worth the heat increase it makes to me


https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3...k-144hz-gaming
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Old Jun 19, 2018, 03:17 PM   #36
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Cpu and lanes matter for sli @ 4k even. I can't say I've noticed a difference for single card 4k, unless the cpu is something like an old chip or quadcore.
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Old Jun 19, 2018, 03:19 PM   #37
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I'll show you a game that is not CPU limited and a game that is CPU limited.

I'll even underclock the 8700K and disabled 2 cores to try and match your CPU then overclock it up.

You'll be surprised reagardless of what res you play at of how much the CPU does matter. Otherwise we'd all be running i3's.

Even in World Of Warcraft going from the 5930K - 6900K - 8700K was nearly 125% increase in performance. Nunz can attest to it in Suramar you'd drop to 23FPS, now I get nothing lower then 65FPS. And that's just a CPU change.

( 5930/6900 @ 4.5GHz - 8700 @ 5.2GHz )
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Old Jun 19, 2018, 03:26 PM   #38
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i'll stick with my un-overclocked watercooled 1800x and 1900x

I'm not going to change till ryzen 3
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Old Jun 19, 2018, 03:34 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
I'll show you a game that is not CPU limited and a game that is CPU limited.

I'll even underclock the 8700K and disabled 2 cores to try and match your CPU then overclock it up.

You'll be surprised reagardless of what res you play at of how much the CPU does matter. Otherwise we'd all be running i3's.

Even in World Of Warcraft going from the 5930K - 6900K - 8700K was nearly 125% increase in performance. Nunz can attest to it in Suramar you'd drop to 23FPS, now I get nothing lower then 65FPS. And that's just a CPU change.

( 5930/6900 @ 4.5GHz - 8700 @ 5.2GHz )
I'd be interested in anything you could put together. Been hanging onto my 3570k for a long damn time since nothing seems worth upgrading to.

And I don't mean cherry picking specific games either to show the difference. Games people are playing at 4k, such as Witcher 3, Assassins Creed, FarCry, TombRaider, etc. All games that are impossible for me to run at 4k 60fps without turning all the settings down.
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Old Jun 19, 2018, 03:36 PM   #40
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You will see a benefit for sure with your quad core. Just check your cpu usage when your gaming. You will in some games your cpu is already taxed out.
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Old Jun 19, 2018, 03:36 PM   #41
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You will see a benefit for sure with your quad core. Just check your cpu usage when your gaming. You will in some games your cpu is already taxed out.
It's never maxed out. It's usually chugging along at 60-70% usage.
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Old Jun 19, 2018, 03:39 PM   #42
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That's world of warcraft, an MMO.

I'm sure Elder Scrolls Online is CPU limited at 4k also but I already get 60fps locked in that game, even with my old GTX 1080.

The games I'm interested I pretty much bet you will not see a difference in downclocking because they will show to be GPU limited at 4k, not CPU limited.

Assassin's Creed Origins
Far Cry 5
Resident Evil 7
Evil Within 2
Elex
Kingdom Come Deliverance

Can also test:
Witcher 3
Serious Sam 3
Prey
Dying Light

The above games (Witcher 3 to Dying Light) will likely show some improvement since they're older and thus not as GPU dependent, since I'm pretty much at 60fps all the time at 4k with the 1080Ti. In fact going from SMAA 2TX in Prey to SMAA 1X keeps me right at 60fps 99% of the time. SMAA 2TX was needed in 1440p, but not all in 4k.
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Old Jun 20, 2018, 05:59 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
That's world of warcraft, an MMO.

I'm sure Elder Scrolls Online is CPU limited at 4k also but I already get 60fps locked in that game, even with my old GTX 1080.

The games I'm interested I pretty much bet you will not see a difference in downclocking because they will show to be GPU limited at 4k, not CPU limited.

Assassin's Creed Origins
Far Cry 5
Resident Evil 7
Evil Within 2
Elex
Kingdom Come Deliverance

Can also test:
Witcher 3
Serious Sam 3
Prey
Dying Light

The above games (Witcher 3 to Dying Light) will likely show some improvement since they're older and thus not as GPU dependent, since I'm pretty much at 60fps all the time at 4k with the 1080Ti. In fact going from SMAA 2TX in Prey to SMAA 1X keeps me right at 60fps 99% of the time. SMAA 2TX was needed in 1440p, but not all in 4k.
I'll see what I can do, the only two titles I have on your list are Farcry 5 and Dying Light. I'm gonna throw GTA5 in to the mix, World Of Warcraft and maybe another.

I'm gonna try and do it off my Projector but I don't know how well that will work as FI can't be disabled on it....
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Old Jun 20, 2018, 08:21 AM   #44
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OK cool, but don't put too much effort into it, I won't be staying with my current processor for long.
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Old Jun 20, 2018, 11:53 AM   #45
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FSX - another game (older) ridiculously CPU limited

Anyway, looking forward to this testing.
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Old Jun 20, 2018, 01:25 PM   #46
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I will do the tests probably closer to the weekend, Friday night and Saturday depending on if I have too work and put in overtime.

Tests will be done on the system in my sig. I will do tests in stages:

1.) Disable two cores and run the processor at 4.0GHz. Pretty much what Exposed runs his system at.

2.) I will clock it then to 4.7GHz and re-run the tests.

I know what people are going to say, why are you neutering the 8700K. I unfortunately don't have a 4770K too test with, plus this will give us a nice indication of IPC differences.

3.) Stock 8700K, MCE disabled so that the processor is stock.

4.) 8700K 5.2GHz.

I'll be testing the following titles:

World Of Warcraft ( I may test the beta with the DX12 API since its been in there sicne the closed Alpha )
FarCry 5
GTAV

Unfortunately I have no other titles. I might buy Tomb Raider but I dunno, don't want to spend the monies on something I may never play.

The system will be secure erased and then reloaded. I will disable Windows Defender though and do all the updates so all the Spectre and Meltdown patches can slow the system right down.
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Old Jun 20, 2018, 01:52 PM   #47
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Is it even worth testing World of Warcraft?

Also, without more games, I'm not sure it'll really tell us much honestly.
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Old Jun 20, 2018, 03:08 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by OverclockN' View Post
Is it even worth testing World of Warcraft?

Also, without more games, I'm not sure it'll really tell us much honestly.
World Of Warcraft and pretty much all Blizzard titles show just what happens when you are CPU bottlenecked hard at 4K.


I'll throw more titles in that I can. Doom is worthless as it runs on even KAC's system.
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Old Jun 20, 2018, 03:26 PM   #49
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Yeah but I think the CPU bottleneck argument came up when I mentioned Elex and Evil Within 2. I do not think those games are CPU limited at all at 3840x2160, but World of Warcraft certainly is. So would a game like Ashes of Singularity and Elder Scrolls Online.

But single player first person and third person shooters? Overclocking my CPU will not be beneficial to reach 60fps at 3840x2160 with those kind of games, but getting a more powerful GPU will. Which is what my GTX 1080 SLI set up was.

As long as the CPU is strong enough to drive 60fps at 1920x1080, it's strong enough to drive 60fps at 3840x2160. If it doesn't, it means the GPU is the limiting factor.
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Old Jun 25, 2018, 02:13 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverclockN' View Post
I'd be interested in anything you could put together. Been hanging onto my 3570k for a long damn time since nothing seems worth upgrading to.

And I don't mean cherry picking specific games either to show the difference. Games people are playing at 4k, such as Witcher 3, Assassins Creed, FarCry, TombRaider, etc. All games that are impossible for me to run at 4k 60fps without turning all the settings down.
I had my 3570k for years and once I went to the 1700x even with my old 390x my frames jumped quite considerably and seemed to not be as sporadic. The processors may be similar, but the newer platforms are other bells and whistles (like DDR4) that can't be overlooked. Far too often we let a frame rate dictate good or bad performance, but there are other things that go into the experience as well like physics, load times, etc...
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Old Jun 25, 2018, 03:06 PM   #51
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I had my 3570k for years and once I went to the 1700x even with my old 390x my frames jumped quite considerably and seemed to not be as sporadic. The processors may be similar, but the newer platforms are other bells and whistles (like DDR4) that can't be overlooked. Far too often we let a frame rate dictate good or bad performance, but there are other things that go into the experience as well like physics, load times, etc...
You should read this thread:

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=34047676

That we've started to see where MHz speed comes in to play at 4K gaming. My next step is to underclock and find where MHz starts to impact performance.

More then likely in the titles you've checked so far are probably more in part due to core count and multi-threaded use rather then CPU speed.
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Old Jun 25, 2018, 08:00 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
You should read this thread:

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=34047676

That we've started to see where MHz speed comes in to play at 4K gaming. My next step is to underclock and find where MHz starts to impact performance.

More then likely in the titles you've checked so far are probably more in part due to core count and multi-threaded use rather then CPU speed.
You should read my post:

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost...3&postcount=50

He is talking about a processor that I owned, used, and overclocked. It saw multiple video card upgrades/sidegrades through its life and feel that I can talk pretty well on the experience of moving to a newer generation. Nothing in your linked thread or this post invalidates what I was hoping people would remember; yes, the more FPS the better, but we shouldn't be so tunnel visioned in neglecting to see the benefits that newer platforms can bring compared to 5 year old hardware. You even start to argue my point for me with regards to increased core counts and what not. Running Discord, Spotify, streaming Netflix in Chrome, etc. all in the background while playing a game and having no lag in while alt-tabbing? Priceless.

The point is this; I was Overclockin' over a year ago wondering if it was worth it to drop $800+ for a new MoBo/CPU/Ram upgrade when I felt that I was still satisfied with the performance I was currently getting. Constantly going back and forth on whether or not it was worth it vs. spending the money on a new GPU (which I ended up doing eventually after the failure that was Vega) and I can unequivocally state that I would do it all again in a heartbeat, if not faster.
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Old Jun 25, 2018, 08:26 PM   #53
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I think he was backing up your point and offering another source of information that corroborates what you’re saying.
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Old Jun 25, 2018, 08:34 PM   #54
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Running Discord, Spotify, streaming Netflix in Chrome, etc. all in the background while playing a game and having no lag in while alt-tabbing? Priceless.

The point is this; I was Overclockin' over a year ago wondering if it was worth it to drop $800+ for a new MoBo/CPU/Ram upgrade when I felt that I was still satisfied with the performance I was currently getting. Constantly going back and forth on whether or not it was worth it vs. spending the money on a new GPU (which I ended up doing eventually after the failure that was Vega) and I can unequivocally state that I would do it all again in a heartbeat, if not faster.
I still haven't see a single post, article, or comparison that convinces me it's worth it. I don't want to run 6 thousand things in the background while playing games. I just want my games to run faster and smoother.
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