Official Thread: Coronavirus "COVID-19"

[Java Cool Dude]

Originally Posted by A2597

He was talking about just the USA, not the world.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Thank you

[Pr3tty F1y]

However, these comments got me thinking.

We do have to think about the world as a whole. We're all most worried about our immediate situations and for good reason. The immediate situation is what affects us day-to-day.

However, just because some areas are doing better than others (and are luckier due to wealth and vaccine availability), the health, well being, and vaccination status of all folks is still of pretty high importance as variants will keep coming from areas with rampant disease. So the folks doing well today may not be so lucky tomorrow and the next variant comes out that the vaccine maybe won't protect against.

So regardless of AstraZenca's vaccine not being as effective as Pfizer/Moderna (and J&J's vaccine still being under review), even a less effective vaccine is better than no vaccine so I hope they still push out the vaccine at a reasonable cost to areas who otherwise wouldn't have access to a vaccine.

It is pretty crap that different folks will get access to vaccines of different effectiveness, but any vaccine is better than no vaccine and the disparities that existed prior to the pandemic also exist now and will continue to exist so, at the very least, I'm hopeful that any vaccine reaches those areas (even if it's a Russian or Chinese vaccine), that do not have the ability to produce vaccines themselves.

[MyTMouse]

Originally Posted by Pr3tty F1y

However, these comments got me thinking.

We do have to think about the world as a whole. We're all most worried about our immediate situations and for good reason. The immediate situation is what affects us day-to-day.

However, just because some areas are doing better than others (and are luckier due to wealth and vaccine availability), the health, well being, and vaccination status of all folks is still of pretty high importance as variants will keep coming from areas with rampant disease. So the folks doing well today may not be so lucky tomorrow and the next variant comes out that the vaccine maybe won't protect against.

So regardless of AstraZenca's vaccine not being as effective as Pfizer/Moderna (and J&J's vaccine still being under review), even a less effective vaccine is better than no vaccine so I hope they still push out the vaccine at a reasonable cost to areas who otherwise wouldn't have access to a vaccine.

It is pretty crap that different folks will get access to vaccines of different effectiveness, but any vaccine is better than no vaccine and the disparities that existed prior to the pandemic also exist now and will continue to exist so, at the very least, I'm hopeful that any vaccine reaches those areas (even if it's a Russian or Chinese vaccine), that do not have the ability to produce vaccines themselves.

I wonder if someone had to resort to getting a "less effective" vaccine (because that was all there was available) if they would be able to take a more effective version later? Could there be bad side effects of doing so or could they be perhaps denied because they were already vaccinated

[Pr3tty F1y]

Originally Posted by MyTMouse

I wonder if someone had to resort to getting a "less effective" vaccine (because that was all there was available) if they would be able to take a more effective version later? Could there be bad side effects of doing so or could they be perhaps denied because they were already vaccinated

There was worry at first between getting the 1st dose of Pfizer/Moderna and then swapping for a 2nd dose with explicit direction to NOT do that, but now they're actually studying that (which is a good thing).

However, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are probably nearly identical as their based on the same underlying mRNA technology and verifying that they can be done interchangeably would be good for the supply chain.

But in all likelihood, yes, you can get a better vaccine later.

There are several flavors of Tentanus vaccine out there made my different manufacturers, and some are just tetanus/diphtheria (Td) and some are tetanus/diphtheria/pertussis (Tdap). So beyond just those two basic types, there are different manufacturing processes whin those types that are not 100% equivalent and then there is the children's version (DTap) which is also different and folks can switch between these with out issues.

HPV got a revamped version to cover more strains and stepping up to the new vaccine was covered in the administration literature.

There's Pneumovax-23 that's been out for years for Pneumonia and then Prevnar-13 that more recently came out and while there is some overlap in the strains covered by one or the other, folks get both - just spaced out.

With influenza, currently there are so many different manufacturers and manufacturing processes that year-to-year, that you may be getting vaccines put together totally differently with each new year's version.

I would still say that researchers should test this stuff before OK'ing it, but if a vaccine is already proven safe and effective, it's unlikely to cause a bad reaction if given to a person who has received another similar vaccine. The only difference is that if there is sufficient overlap and the immunization is given within a relatively recent period, expect your immune system to be none too happy and make you feel like crap - just like the 2nd dose of the Moderna/Pfizer vaccines.

[Silent-Runner]

we already have groups of people who deny getting vaccinated with AstraZenca because of the side effects. Talking about it on the radio sure "helped" a lot to minimize the panic..... Now even more people aren't willing to get that stuff, bravo.

[Pr3tty F1y]

Originally Posted by Silent-Runner

we already have groups of people who deny getting vaccinated with AstraZenca because of the side effects. Talking about it on the radio sure "helped" a lot to minimize the panic..... Now even more people aren't willing to get that stuff, bravo.

The side effects of these vaccines are within reason. Of course someone will have a more severe, allergic reaction. That happens to everything.

Nuts, fruits, egg, milk (and not lactose intolerance - you can be allergic to milk proteins), and the list goes on and on. If you can be allergic to something "natural" you can be allergic to something manufactured. At the end of the day, they're all chemicals and everyone's immune system is different and sensitized towards different things.

However, the aches/pains/chills/mild fever of the COVID vaccines that most folks will get are easily dealt with and subside within a day or two. People are a bunch of weenies and can't bare a bit of discomfort for the physical and mental benefits of not getting the disease and not having to worry as much - like the dumbasses who don't get the flu vaccine because "it gives them the flu." But you're right, we give a loud speaker to these dumb dumbs and then other dumb dumbs that are on the fence listen to them (because of course we'll listen to dumb dumbs rather than, you know, well educated people who we're suspicious of....).

[Lazy8s]

Quite a few family members have had either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines and so far, no one is complaining. "It beats the hell out of COVID" is the standard response to sore arms and feeling ill/off for a day.

[mizzer]

My wife received the first dose. She's a teacher in Ohio.
I'll wait my turn. I'm still in my 40s and in good health.

I encourage all front line people to get the vaccine. Some older, healthy people I know are waiting longer 1) to see which vaccine is best for them and 2) to allow more doses to be available for the the ill or front line workers.

[acroig]

Originally Posted by Cyko

My wife is a fking moron - and yes, I told her that verbatim.

She drove out to CO for the weekend with her mom and sister to scout homes/areas for us to move to. Cue today when I get the following 2 texts:

#1 - “ Sooo uncomfortable...we’re at church and I’m literally the only one wearing a mask.”

#2 - “ And everyone is staring at me“

So immediately I thought “what kind of an idiot goes to church in a pandemic” followed by “how much dumber do you have to be to look around at nobody wearing masks and not immediately get back in your car but rather you go sit amongst them.”

Told her to call me and when she did I told her she’s a fcking moron and to choose either the spare bedroom (which has a side entrance to the yard) or a hotel room to quarantine in until she gets 2 negative tests 24 hours apart.

What kind of dumb sh*t knowingly does something like that with an immunocompromised spouse at home?!?!? Jesus H. I’m LIVID.

Your better half went cray cray.

[Jkmetal23]

Cyko, I gave my GF a weekend to herself over something she did COVID protocol wise. Everything was alright in the end but.... I get it.

[JZL]

My 16 yr old granddaughter "finally" got it.

I say "finally" only because she has already been quarantined four times-- including when her little brother had it-- without getting it.

Neither she nor her parents have any idea where she got it, as she'd been home from school quite a bit because of the winter storm. [shrugs]

[Greasy]

Originally Posted by JZL

My 16 yr old granddaughter "finally" got it.

I say "finally" only because she has already been quarantined four times-- including when her little brother had it-- without getting it.

Neither she nor her parents have any idea where she got it, as she'd been home from school quite a bit because of the winter storm. [shrugs]

She will probably shrug it off like a common cold. Now the better question for her parents is... she sneaking out at night?

[xCLAVEx]

Originally Posted by JZL

My 16 yr old granddaughter "finally" got it.

I say "finally" only because she has already been quarantined four times-- including when her little brother had it-- without getting it.

Neither she nor her parents have any idea where she got it, as she'd been home from school quite a bit because of the winter storm. [shrugs]

She knows exactly how she got it or has a good idea, she just isn't saying.

[Payne3d]

how is the j&j single shot vaccine compared to the other stuff? asking for an older family member.
not a fan of J&J because of this:
https://www.reuters.com/investigates...ohnson-cancer/

J&J didn’t tell the FDA that at least three tests by three different labs from 1972 to 1975 had found asbestos in its talc – in one case at levels reported as “rather high.”

"FDA approval" seems like it means nothing

[koralis]

Originally Posted by Payne3d

how is the j&j single shot vaccine compared to the other stuff? asking for an older family.

66%. High enough to probably get approved, but not as good. However, no deaths in their study... so if you got Covid, it wasn't life-threatening. As the second Pfizer/Moderna shot is the one that really seems to do a number on people, the single dose of J&J likely has milder side effects.

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/24/...inst-covid-19/

Overall in the study, the vaccine reduced cases of Covid-19 that were rated as moderate to severe by 66.1% when considering cases occurring at least 28 days after vaccination. There were 193 cases that occurred at least 28 days after vaccination in the placebo group and 66 in the vaccine group. As of Feb. 5, there were seven Covid-19 related deaths in the placebo group and none in the vaccine group.

[Renocide]

Wife, the teacher, got her second shot today of Maderna(?).

Knocked her on her ass. haha

She is having body aches and a headache.

So I am feeling a lot better today. My only fear was that she would somehow get it at school.

They have had several teachers and parents get the virus and have had a couple of weeks of remote teaching.

[Greasy]

Originally Posted by koralis

66%. High enough to probably get approved, but not as good. However, no deaths in their study... so if you got Covid, it wasn't life-threatening. As the second Pfizer/Moderna shot is the one that really seems to do a number on people, the single dose of J&J likely has milder side effects.

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/24/...inst-covid-19/

Didn't JJ also test in South Africa? If so they were seeing some of that strain in their results, which also would lower the results of the others if tested against that one.

[KAC]

Is it just me or has death rate increased since vaccines came out.

[koralis]

Originally Posted by Greasy

Didn't JJ also test in South Africa? If so they were seeing some of that strain in their results, which also would lower the results of the others if tested against that one.

That's true that the 96% numbers didn't have to deal with the newer strains. Here's a breakdown by region for JJ.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/he...1-e24d1cd8e025

J&J tested its single-dose option in 44,000 adults in the U.S., Latin America and South Africa. Different mutated versions of the virus are circulating in different countries, and the FDA analysis cautioned that it's not clear how well the vaccine works against each variant. But J&J previously announced the vaccine worked better in the U.S. -- 72% effective against moderate to severe COVID-19, compared with 66% in Latin America and 57% in South Africa.

Ars has higher numbers though
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021...s-last-hurdle/

According to a detailed FDA review of Phase III clinical trial data submitted by Johnson & Johnson, the vaccine was 66 percent effective at preventing moderate to severe COVID-19 at 28 days after vaccination. (Johnson & Johnson defined moderate cases to include cases that had two symptoms, such as cough and fever, which would have been classified as simply “symptomatic” infections in other trials.)

The international trial, which involved over 44,000 participants in various trial sites, had different efficacies in different places. In the US, the overall efficacy was slightly higher, at 72 percent. But in places where variants of concern are widely circulating, the efficacy fell. It was 64 percent effective in South Africa, and 61 percent effective in Latin America.

Reassuringly, the efficacy against severe and critical disease was high across the board, in all the trial locations and across age groups. Efficacy against severe disease was 85 percent overall 28 days after vaccination. By location, efficacy against severe disease in the US was at 86 percent, 82 percent in South Africa, and 88 percent in Brazil. In a further analysis, there were zero hospitalizations among vaccinated participants and 16 in the placebo group. As of February 5, there were seven COVID-19-related deaths in the trial, all of which were in the placebo group.

In addition, Johnson & Johnson has a 30,000-person trial in progress testing whether adding a booster shot will further increase efficacy.

Moderna and Pfizer might still be higher than 57% for the SA variant, but possibly due to 2 shots vs 1. Real numbers I haven't seen, but Moderna is developing an extra shot for SA which is undergoing a clinical trial now. What does the wishy-washy phrase "remains effective" actually mean?

https://ewn.co.za/2021/02/25/moderna...dy-for-testing

While initial testing has shown that Moderna's original vaccine - called mRNA-1273 - remains effective against emerging variants, the company said it was pursuing the development of a variant-specific vaccine as part of a number of strategies being considered.

[Nagorak]

I'm honestly a little afraid that one of the variants is going to prove vaccine resistant and we have to stay shut down for another year making a follow-up vaccine.

[Silent-Runner]

Originally Posted by Nagorak

I'm honestly a little afraid that one of the variants is going to prove vaccine resistant and we have to stay shut down for another year making a follow-up vaccine.

that's actually not so far fetched as i wish it would be

[koralis]

Originally Posted by Silent-Runner

that's actually not so far fetched as i wish it would be

Well, FDA has said that approval for variants will be faster, so hopefully not.

[pax]

Originally Posted by Nagorak

I'm honestly a little afraid that one of the variants is going to prove vaccine resistant and we have to stay shut down for another year making a follow-up vaccine.

Risks of that are minimal. While some mutations can make the virus more contagious most of the virus itself remains detectable after a vaccine or initial infection and so far vaccines show them to work on known mutations. Also the other covid viruses that infect us, of which covid 19 is the 5th kind, have remained modest infectious agents since we have long been exposed to them and developped immunity.

Add to that that they can make boosters every 6 months and my bet is this thing is largely over when we reach 50% of the population vaccinated by summer.

Even the weaker vaccines with ~60% effectiveness are in studies 100% effective against death and hospitalisation.

[Pr3tty F1y]

Originally Posted by pax

Even the weaker vaccines with ~60% effectiveness are in studies 100% effective against death and hospitalisation.

I have no idea if they'd do this, but if they reserve the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines for the elderly/those with conditions but provide the J&J vaccine as a free-for-all to whoever shows up to get it, I think that would be the most reasonable approach.

The way we need to think about this is that a pandemic is like multi-ball in a game of pinball, every time a ball bounces off another ball, there's a chance of transmission. The less balls that can transmit, the less spread. So giving the vaccine out to whoever wants it makes sense to me in that you'd be randomly inserting "barriers" to transmission throughout a population which should decrease transmission even more as those targeted groups are most likely taking the most precautions and are not out and about as much as other groups.

Granted, they have not proven that the vaccine stops transmission, I think it would be likely to assume that at the very least, it would limit transmission.

[cbsboyer]

I'll be so glad when they finally get the vaccines rolling out in quantity. We dodged another bullet this week. The son of one of the guys tested positive on Wednesday, and there are three of us that overlap lunch break with him. Distancing, but no mask (kind of hard to jam a sandwich through the fabric). His test came back negative yesterday (somehow), so we got off lucky again.

I'm having lunches by myself in the unused lab from now on. Separate entrances from the break room and office area, so I can avoid everyone.

[KAC]

Originally Posted by cbsboyer

I'll be so glad when they finally get the vaccines rolling out in quantity. We dodged another bullet this week. The son of one of the guys tested positive on Wednesday, and there are three of us that overlap lunch break with him. Distancing, but no mask (kind of hard to jam a sandwich through the fabric). His test came back negative yesterday (somehow), so we got off lucky again.

I'm having lunches by myself in the unused lab from now on. Separate entrances from the break room and office area, so I can avoid everyone.

You don’t have an option to work from home?

[pax]

Originally Posted by Pr3tty F1y

I have no idea if they'd do this, but if they reserve the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines for the elderly/those with conditions but provide the J&J vaccine as a free-for-all to whoever shows up to get it, I think that would be the most reasonable approach.

The way we need to think about this is that a pandemic is like multi-ball in a game of pinball, every time a ball bounces off another ball, there's a chance of transmission. The less balls that can transmit, the less spread. So giving the vaccine out to whoever wants it makes sense to me in that you'd be randomly inserting "barriers" to transmission throughout a population which should decrease transmission even more as those targeted groups are most likely taking the most precautions and are not out and about as much as other groups.

Granted, they have not proven that the vaccine stops transmission, I think it would be likely to assume that at the very least, it would limit transmission.

If you dont get sick you drastically reduce the chance of contagion as you both produce less viruses and dont propel them very far. You might be less prudent if you have no symptoms tho.

Some think we can use the 2 shot vaccines as one shots to cover more people faster but that might not be necessary if we keep authorizing new vaccines in the next few weeks and months and make the overall supply grow a lot faster. It may be more a question of how many people can we vaccinate on a given day than supply of vaccines soon.

Id throw the army on it to help out.

[Java Cool Dude]

There are fewer than 50k Covid hospitalizations, the lowest since November: let's not **** it up folks!

[Greasy]

Originally Posted by Java Cool Dude

There are fewer than 50k Covid hospitalizations, the lowest since November: let's not **** it up folks!

States are already starting to relax their prevention measures. NC has doubled the indoor capacity now. I hope it doesn't spike again.

[koralis]

Regarding transmission after vaccination:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...li-study-shows

The Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE Covid-19 vaccine appeared to stop the vast majority of recipients in Israel becoming infected, providing the first real-world indication that the immunization will curb transmission of the coronavirus.

...
Pfizer and BioNTech said they are working on a real-world analysis of data from Israel, which will be shared as soon as it’s complete. Spokespeople declined to comment on unpublished data.
...
“That means that the true reduction in transmission is lower than the estimate of 89.4%,” McLaren said. “How much lower? We need more evidence to know for sure. But I expect that, once we account for the bias, we’ll still find that this vaccine does reduce transmission. And that would be very good news.”
.

What isn't stated is whether that number is Vaccines alone or Vaccines + social distancing + masks. Seems like it, but the formula will change shortly... more vaccinated, but less distancing... lets see if it holds up.


but seems they're becoming more open now that the vaccines only allow a low death rate, and half the population has at least one dose.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56143126

On Saturday, the health ministry said studies revealed the risk of illness from the virus has dropped 95.8% among people who have had both doses of the Pfizer vaccine.

It also found that the vaccine was 98% effective in preventing fever or breathing problems.
...

From Sunday, shops, libraries and museums can open but social distancing and masks are still required.
...
Under the easing measures, people are now able to enter shopping malls and tourist attractions such as zoos.

A number of other facilities are now able to reopen including gyms, hotels and synagogues. However they require a "green passport", a certificate that can only be obtained once you have been vaccinated. A small number of people who have recovered from the virus and are not currently eligible for the vaccine are also able to obtain the certificate.

The passport, which is contained in an app, is issued by the health ministry and will be valid for six months, one week after the second dose.

Crowds are now allowed back at concerts and sporting events have reopened at 75% capacity but they have a cap of no more than 300 people inside and 500 outside.