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Old Jun 12, 2019, 01:42 PM   #661
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wabbitslayer
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Originally Posted by andino View Post
Like I said earlier, I can get a intel 9900k MB/CPU for $900.00.... I'm willing to bet that price will drop a bunch by July 7th as well.

AMD looks to be pricing their selves out of their market. I don't really care if it is the MB manufacturers faults or AMDs fault.
I've been kicking similar thoughts around in my head. I can get a 9900k combo with a Aorus Ultra mobo for $700. Looks like a 3900x and the x570 of that modo will be about 850. IF the rumored prices are accurate, and that is a huge IF.

Not sure how I feel about $150 more for what is still unreviewed, untested and unproven. OTOH, if 3900x is equal to 9900k (if not better), then getting a pcie 4 mobo is probably worth is since I'm another year or so from a gpu upgrade.

Of course, this could be resolved by simply waiting a few July days to see what the reviews are, but where's the fun in doing that? It would make way too much sense.
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Old Jun 12, 2019, 02:20 PM   #662
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Originally Posted by wabbitslayer View Post
I've been kicking similar thoughts around in my head. I can get a 9900k combo with a Aorus Ultra mobo for $700. Looks like a 3900x and the x570 of that modo will be about 850. IF the rumored prices are accurate, and that is a huge IF.

Not sure how I feel about $150 more for what is still unreviewed, untested and unproven. OTOH, if 3900x is equal to 9900k (if not better), then getting a pcie 4 mobo is probably worth is since I'm another year or so from a gpu upgrade.

Of course, this could be resolved by simply waiting a few July days to see what the reviews are, but where's the fun in doing that? It would make way too much sense.
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AMD Zen 2 has Hardware Mitigation for Spectre V4
Quote:
AMD in its technical brief revealed that its Zen 2 microarchitecture has hardware mitigation against the Spectre V4 speculative store bypass vulnerability. The current generation "Zen" and "Zen+" microarchitectures have OS-level mitigation. A hardware mitigation typically has less of a performance overhead than a software mitigation deployed at the OS or firmware level. In addition, just like older generations of "Zen," the new "Zen 2" microarchitecture is inherently immune to Meltdown, Foreshadow, Spectre V3a, Lazy FPU, Spoiler, and the recently discovered MDS vulnerability. In comparison, the 9th generation Core "Coffee Lake Refresh" processors still rely on software or microcode-level mitigation for Spectre V4, Spectre V3a, MDS, and RIDL.
https://www.techpowerup.com/256478/a...for-spectre-v4


……………

Quote:
AMD X570 Puts Out Up To Twelve SATA 6G Ports and Sixteen PCIe Gen 4 Lanes
Quote:
Speaking of USB, we arrive at the third big thing on the X570, integrated USB 3.1 gen 2. We learn that 3rd generation Ryzen "Matisse" SoCs put out four 10 Gbps USB 3.1 gen 2 ports. Current-generation "Pinnacle Ridge" processors put out four 5 Gbps USB 3.1 gen 1
Quote:
AMD finally beats Intel in the PCIe budget numbers-game. The 3rd generation Ryzen "Matisse" processor puts out 24 PCIe gen 4.0 lanes. Add this to the 16 PCIe gen 4.0 lanes from the X570 chipset, and you arrive at 44 lanes (including the chipset bus). This beats the 40 lanes when you combine a "Coffee Lake Refresh" processor with a Z390 Express chipset (16 + 24). It's important to note here that Intel is still stuck with PCIe gen 3.0 on its 9th generation Core platform. The Ryzen "Picasso" APU silicon only puts out 16 PCIe gen 4.0 lanes, hence we arrive at 36 lanes.
https://www.techpowerup.com/256480/a...ie-gen-4-lanes

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Old Jun 13, 2019, 04:10 AM   #663
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I'm very interested to see game performance with security mitigations in place. All I've seen are synthetics relating to HDD access.

I wouldn't mind building a new rig with AMD CPU and Super wank factor TI, but if there's no real benefit to gaming I'll just grab a 9900K and save some cash.
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Old Jun 13, 2019, 02:36 PM   #664
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GIGABYTE X570 Aorus Master: High-end With Wi-Fi 6, 2.5G LAN, Triple PCIe 4.0 M.2 Slots
Quote:
GIGABYTE's X570 Aorus Master targets gamers and enthusiasts looking to push their processors further than the rated specifications, and will likely have good memory support for fast memory to make the most of the AMD Ryzen 3000 series Infinity Fabric Interconnect. The pricing reflects this with a price tag of $349 which puts it in the upper echelon, and the second most expensive X570 model from GIGABYTE set to launch on 7/7.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14537...ie-40-m2-slots

this is one step down so as a guess aorus xtreme will be 549 same price as the intel one
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Old Jun 13, 2019, 09:37 PM   #665
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14537...ie-40-m2-slots

this is one step down so as a guess aorus xtreme will be 549 same price as the intel one
Charging extra $200 just for a passive cooling is ridiculous, I'm not sure if this master board is as cheap as $350, it gotta be $450, the aorus elite is the one that can be $350.
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Old Jun 13, 2019, 09:55 PM   #666
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Well theres the 10gb lan and extra 2 vrms... 14 is overkill already tho.

But ya not worth another 200$. Another article says some mobos are approaching 800$... msi and asus:


https://adoredtv.com/leaked-asus-and...proaching-800/


Quote:
Today, we received information from our sources that X570 motherboards are going to be very expensive, with one model from MSI costing $777.99 – perhaps paying homage to Ryzen 3000’s branding or 7nm process node. While last generation X470 prices didn’t reach the $300 mark, the new X570 chipset will feature extremely high end boards that will hit the $300, $400, $500, $700, and almost $800 price points. We covered ASUS’s boards in a previous article here.

X570 Motherboards (ASUS) MSRP (rumored)
ROG CROSSHAIR VIII FORMULA $699.99

X570 Motherboards (MSI) MSRP (rumored)
MEG X570 GODLIKE $777.99
Wonder if we could buy some aftermarket solution for passive cooling on the new mobos. If the GB models have about all the same layout should be doable. Same for other brands...
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Old Jun 13, 2019, 10:31 PM   #667
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Bill, I'm betting on EK to make a block for these. Hang tight before you waste a bunch of money. Fingers crossed!
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Old Jun 13, 2019, 11:10 PM   #668
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Originally Posted by pax View Post
Well theres the 10gb lan and extra 2 vrms... 14 is overkill already tho.

But ya not worth another 200$. Another article says some mobos are approaching 800$... msi and asus:


https://adoredtv.com/leaked-asus-and...proaching-800/




Wonder if we could buy some aftermarket solution for passive cooling on the new mobos. If the GB models have about all the same layout should be doable. Same for other brands...
549 was a guess but is what the intel one costs

it is also the type of VRM used as it is higher cost

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qszxxIumJOQ

and all that anodized aluminum heat sink and heat pipe adds up

all the cabling on the end being right angle is also a plus the master doesn't have

……...
the top asus stuff is out for me if those prices are right
crosshair viii formula is just not a 699 board .
you are paying 300 bucks for a VRM waterblock you don't need

the crosshair viii hero (wi-fi) at 379 isn't too bad

…….

the MSI godlike maybe worth it with that 10g super lan card and msi m.2 xpander-z gen4 if you need that crap
but I don't and would never even plug them in

maybe if they sell it without the dumb add in cards for 550 to 600


………

so far it is the aorus xtreme if 600 or less

then the msi x570 meg ace at 399 maybe at least MSI did some work on the fan blade in the last 8 years unlike asus

or the crosshair viii hero (wi-fi) at 379

and 499 for the 3900x and reuse my 3200 memory

Last edited by bill dennison : Jun 13, 2019 at 11:25 PM.
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Old Jun 13, 2019, 11:13 PM   #669
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Originally Posted by Greasy View Post
Bill, I'm betting on EK to make a block for these. Hang tight before you waste a bunch of money. Fingers crossed!
look closer EK is making the block for the formula



I don't think they will sell them on the side
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Old Jun 13, 2019, 11:34 PM   #670
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
549 was a guess but is what the intel one costs

it is also the type of VRM used as it is higher cost

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qszxxIumJOQ

and all that anodized aluminum heat sink and heat pipe adds up

all the cabling on the end being right angle is also a plus the master doesn't have

……...
the top asus stuff is out for me if those prices are right
crosshair viii formula is just not a 699 board .
you are paying 300 bucks for a VRM waterblock you don't need

the crosshair viii hero (wi-fi) at 379 isn't too bad

…….

the MSI godlike maybe worth it with that 10g super lan card and msi m.2 xpander-z gen4 if you need that crap
but I don't and would never even plug them in

maybe if they sell it without the dumb add in cards for 550 to 600


………

so far it is the aorus xtreme if 600 or less

then the msi x570 meg ace at 399 maybe at least MSI did some work on the fan blade in the last 8 years unlike asus

or the crosshair viii hero (wi-fi) at 379

and 499 for the 3900x and reuse my 3200 memory
I sorta could see a possible need for the 2.5 gb nic as local isp has upped its top speed to 1.5 gb. Might be affordable in a couple years maybe (over 100$ a month right now)... But other than that I think a healthy vrm is all we need on top of the standard x570 specs and at the 3-400$ price point we get just about everything we need.
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Old Jun 14, 2019, 09:07 AM   #671
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stores getting stock now.

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Old Jun 14, 2019, 05:06 PM   #672
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These motherboards are stealing all the show and negativity from the actual CPUs.
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Old Jun 14, 2019, 05:27 PM   #673
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These motherboards are stealing all the show and negativity from the actual CPUs.
what is negative about the CPU
it is not as cheap as some clickbait website said it would be last year
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Old Jun 14, 2019, 05:44 PM   #674
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
what is negative about the CPU
it is not as cheap as some clickbait website said it would be last year
9900K $499.... Greatest CPU ever, what a steal for 8 cores at 5ghz.
3900X $499.... WTF AMD Y U SO GREEDY!
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Old Jun 14, 2019, 06:01 PM   #675
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9900K $499.... Greatest CPU ever, what a steal for 8 cores at 5ghz.
3900X $499.... WTF AMD Y U SO GREEDY!
8 core to 12 core
what's greedy about the same price for 50% more cores


Ryzen 7 3800X

8 Cores | 16 Threads
3.9GHz Base | 4.5GHz Boost
36MB Cache| 32MB L3, 4MB L2
105W TDP

399$ USD

intel …….

…… i wouldn't touch that with your ……..
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Old Jun 14, 2019, 06:15 PM   #676
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Then when you factor in the $200.00 extra AMD tax for the motherboards it's a cheaper to go with Intel.
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Old Jun 14, 2019, 06:41 PM   #677
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
what is negative about the CPU
it is not as cheap as some clickbait website said it would be last year
We don’t know yet
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Old Jun 14, 2019, 09:03 PM   #678
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Originally Posted by andino View Post
Then when you factor in the $200.00 extra AMD tax for the motherboards it's a cheaper to go with Intel.
where do you get 200 extra


crosshair viii hero (wi-fi) at 379

looks like the hero went up 100 bucks or 80 since the x470 one is on sale from 299

https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-cros...82E16813119097



……

intel is the past .
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Old Jun 14, 2019, 09:25 PM   #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
8 core to 12 core
what's greedy about the same price for 50% more cores


Ryzen 7 3800X

8 Cores | 16 Threads
3.9GHz Base | 4.5GHz Boost
36MB Cache| 32MB L3, 4MB L2
105W TDP

399$ USD

intel …….

…… i wouldn't touch that with your ……..
My point! Assuming the hype train isn't a fail, I'm all over a 3900X next month.
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Old Jun 14, 2019, 11:14 PM   #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
where do you get 200 extra


crosshair viii hero (wi-fi) at 379

looks like the hero went up 100 bucks or 80 since the x470 one is on sale from 299

https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-cros...82E16813119097



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Old Jun 14, 2019, 11:53 PM   #681
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Old Jun 15, 2019, 12:22 AM   #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greasy View Post
9900K $499.... Greatest CPU ever, what a steal for 8 cores at 5ghz.
3900X $499.... WTF AMD Y U SO GREEDY!
I don't really agree about your characterization of the reception of the 9900K. My sense was that many felt it was overpriced, it's just some people were still willing to pay up for it anyway.
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Old Jun 15, 2019, 12:27 AM   #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
where do you get 200 extra
https://www.amazon.com/ROG-Maximus-X...gateway&sr=8-1

Asus Maximus XI Formula for Intel - $349.00


https://www.pcbuildersclub.com/en/20...s-high-prices/
Quote:
the Asus ROG Crosshair VII Formula, comes with an exorbitant price tag of $699
Asus Crosshair VII Formula for AMD - $699.99.....

So you are right. It's more like $350.00 extra for an AMD Formula motherboard. Not $200.00 more....

Quote:
crosshair viii hero (wi-fi) at 379
https://www.amazon.com/ROG-Maximus-H...gateway&sr=8-1

Asus Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) for Intel - $282..

So the AMD Hero MB is $100 more than the Intel Hero.


Across the board, AMD boards are looking to be much more expensive than their Intel counterparts. It is going to be VERY interesting to see how AMD spins this because from where I sit AMD is now the more expensive platform upgrade.
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Old Jun 15, 2019, 01:42 AM   #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andino View Post
https://www.amazon.com/ROG-Maximus-X...gateway&sr=8-1

Asus Maximus XI Formula for Intel - $349.00


https://www.pcbuildersclub.com/en/20...s-high-prices/


Asus Crosshair VII Formula for AMD - $699.99.....

So you are right. It's more like $350.00 extra for an AMD Formula motherboard. Not $200.00 more....



https://www.amazon.com/ROG-Maximus-H...gateway&sr=8-1

Asus Maximus XI Hero (Wi-Fi) for Intel - $282..

So the AMD Hero MB is $100 more than the Intel Hero.


Across the board, AMD boards are looking to be much more expensive than their Intel counterparts. It is going to be VERY interesting to see how AMD spins this because from where I sit AMD is now the more expensive platform upgrade.
comparing apples and bananas

the intel Maximus XI Hero is a much lower level MB than the crosshair viii hero (wi-fi)

the crosshair viii hero (wi-fi) has more USB and faster 3.2 Gen vs 3.1 Gen
and 1 more m2 I think


and the crosshair viii hero (wi-fi) is still only a 100 bucks more than the x470 crosshair vii hero (wi-fi)


the Crosshair VII Formula is over priced if that price is true but that is still Asus not AMD
I will wait till full review for official pricing


but hay buy your intel

I won't

I gave up on intel a 7 years ago 3930k & 3770k were my last

intel and their 5% upgrade per year and now all the STD's

so far the 3 Ryzen gens have been much better
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Old Jun 15, 2019, 03:35 AM   #685
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https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ms...ing,39593.html

Quote:
Chiang also says that AMD is changing its marketing strategy to focus on being a premium brand, as opposed to being the value alternative.

"Lots of people ask me, what do you think about today's AMD? I say today's AMD is completely different company compared to two, three, five years ago," Chiang said. "They have nice technology and they are there to put the higher spec with the reasonable pricing. But right now they say, "Hey Charles, lets push to marketing to the higher [end]. So let's sell higher-pricing motherboards, higher-spec motherboards, and let's see what will happen in the market. So I don't think that AMD is the company that wants to sell low cost here, low cost there."

That change in focus could make X570 motherboard pricing comparable to, or even higher than, many Intel Z390 motherboards. "I would like to say the price would be comparable, and even higher for some SKUs," Chiang said. "But I can tell that if an X570 is compared to our Z390, if the specs are equal and everything, I don't think we [are] going to price AMD lower. I don't think that's realistic because the cost of the motherboard [will] be higher, and maybe the pricing [of] the chipset [is] higher."

All AMD motherboards are going to be more expensive. Not just Asus's motherboards. All of them.

AMD is changing directions. The main reason why people gravitated to AMD was because of the price. Now it appears that the price advantage is no longer there.
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Old Jun 15, 2019, 04:31 AM   #686
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People gravitated towards AMD because they were offering cheap hardware because they couldn’t compete on the high-end. Now that they’re basically vying for the performance crown, it makes perfect sense that their pricing moves into the same realm as Intel.

I don’t get it. Do you guys think AMD sold chips for cheap because they like you? It was simply because no one would buy their slow, hot ass chips unless they were a good budget purchase.

I’m looking to build a 3900X system towards the start of winter. Im not a fan of the motherboard prices, especially since useless features like PCIE 4.0 are being forced on us. As an OCer, I’ll need a good X570 board to keep up power delivery to the chip. I’m an all-core-or-nothing kind of person, and I’m going to hit 4.7-4.8 whether it takes a custom loop or an AIO.
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Old Jun 15, 2019, 05:01 AM   #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andino View Post
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ms...ing,39593.html




All AMD motherboards are going to be more expensive. Not just Asus's motherboards. All of them.

AMD is changing directions. The main reason why people gravitated to AMD was because of the price. Now it appears that the price advantage is no longer there.
it was not for me .
intel went stagnant after my 3990k .

as for MSI
says a guy that is jacking prices and wants to misdirect some the anger

but of course some of AMD's motherboards are going to be higher they are now making much better real high end boards now, and sorry people we will have to pay for them if we want the high end crap
but the crosshair viii hero is still midrange and 379 if these prices are right and they still may not be
but the bios and need for a fan and 4.0 is going to be most of that 100 bucks difference between the C7H and the C8H


all the x370 were midrange at best including my C6H when compared to high end intel like my rampage iv extreme or my zenith extreme
and x470 wasn't much better

and that was one thing I didn't like about Ryzen
so I am not going to complain that the high end boards I wanted cost more or really about the same as my 2011 R4E intel MB 550


but the x570 aorus xtreme and the z390 aorus xtreme maybe the same price or the x570 maybe a little more
since the z390 doesn't have all that heatsink


and there is still the b550 to come for people that want cheap
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Old Jun 15, 2019, 05:03 AM   #688
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People need to tame their expectations, my gut say that 4.5 GHz is more or less the wall on ryzen 3000 for all cores turbo.

And it has been demonstrated recently that going 5 ghz would require exotic cooling, people who expect near 5 GHz all cores turbo on 12 and 16 cores are going to be disappointed.
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Old Jun 15, 2019, 06:55 AM   #689
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By the time these chips hit the market it will have been a year since the 9900K launch. I fully expect them to outperform the 9900K as I'm sure a CPU a year from now will beat the chips AMD is currently releasing. My general rule for upgrading is to upgrade only when you need to and buy the best that you can afford at the time you upgrade. If you are going to wait because something better will come out in a year then you might as well wait forever because something better will always be on the horizon.

My hope is that the 12/24 chip will soundly beat the 9900K in order to push Intel harder. If this release falls flat then it is bad for everyone but Intel. My only concern is based off of what I am seeing on my [email protected] all core. Basically, most games don't support 16 threads but the ones that do could push 2X as much CPU load without making the 9900K choke. The problem isn't the number of cores/threads, it's core speed. Usually there are 1 or 2 threads that will overload a single core and cause a CPU bottleneck of about 90 FPS on a few games that I own @ 4K with SLI. If AMD can't overpower the 9900K and they add more cores to help add value, it will just cause their core speeds to drop and the chip will bottle neck before the 9900K in every game that has CPU limitations. Even more so with extra cores bogging it down.

I don't consider 32 threads to be a worth while solution for anything gaming related during the life of these chips. The same way I didn't see any value in the Athlon 64's ability to do 64bit computing during it's life time. I bought 2 chips from the A64 lineup because they performed better with less heat. Now that I have a custom cooling loop, I actually like hot chips that push the boundaries of speed as it gives me a reason to own my custom loop and makes it feel like money worth spent. My only deciding factor at the moment is speed and I have a feeling AMD is still going to struggle even with Intel's year old tech built on a 5 year old architecture with STDs. They really need to get their sh!t together if you ask me.

I need a quad core for every day tasks and thanks to GPU rendering tech like IRAY, I don't need more than a quad core for 3D rendering. Games are fine with 6/12 tech and I don't see needing more than 8/16 for the next 5 years considering AMD's slower clocked 8 core chips will be powering consoles. The only use for a 16/32 core chip is in the server market and people who do a ton of video encoding and they would be better served by a server market value chip, not mainstream. I'm not real optimistic about this launch but I do truly hope it is at least a little faster. I think the lower price point of $399 is indicative that it won't be though. The extra cost on the mobo is an even bigger kick in the nuts if it's a slower gaming CPU than a year old chip. I paid $450 for my ASUS Formula with built in EK water block and 4800Mhz RAM support. I paid $480 for my 9900K which was over priced but I don't mind spending an extra $100 on a chip if it last 5 years and brings performance levels that will match the following years tech.

Last edited by the_sextein : Jun 15, 2019 at 07:16 AM.
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Old Jun 15, 2019, 08:14 AM   #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_sextein View Post
By the time these chips hit the market it will have been a year since the 9900K launch. I fully expect them to outperform the 9900K as I'm sure a CPU a year from now will beat the chips AMD is currently releasing. My general rule for upgrading is to upgrade only when you need to and buy the best that you can afford at the time you upgrade. If you are going to wait because something better will come out in a year then you might as well wait forever because something better will always be on the horizon.

My hope is that the 12/24 chip will soundly beat the 9900K in order to push Intel harder. If this release falls flat then it is bad for everyone but Intel. My only concern is based off of what I am seeing on my [email protected] all core. Basically, most games don't support 16 threads but the ones that do could push 2X as much CPU load without making the 9900K choke. The problem isn't the number of cores/threads, it's core speed. Usually there are 1 or 2 threads that will overload a single core and cause a CPU bottleneck of about 90 FPS on a few games that I own @ 4K with SLI. If AMD can't overpower the 9900K and they add more cores to help add value, it will just cause their core speeds to drop and the chip will bottle neck before the 9900K in every game that has CPU limitations. Even more so with extra cores bogging it down.

I don't consider 32 threads to be a worth while solution for anything gaming related during the life of these chips. The same way I didn't see any value in the Athlon 64's ability to do 64bit computing during it's life time. I bought 2 chips from the A64 lineup because they performed better with less heat. Now that I have a custom cooling loop, I actually like hot chips that push the boundaries of speed as it gives me a reason to own my custom loop and makes it feel like money worth spent. My only deciding factor at the moment is speed and I have a feeling AMD is still going to struggle even with Intel's year old tech built on a 5 year old architecture with STDs. They really need to get their sh!t together if you ask me.

I need a quad core for every day tasks and thanks to GPU rendering tech like IRAY, I don't need more than a quad core for 3D rendering. Games are fine with 6/12 tech and I don't see needing more than 8/16 for the next 5 years considering AMD's slower clocked 8 core chips will be powering consoles. The only use for a 16/32 core chip is in the server market and people who do a ton of video encoding and they would be better served by a server market value chip, not mainstream. I'm not real optimistic about this launch but I do truly hope it is at least a little faster. I think the lower price point of $399 is indicative that it won't be though. The extra cost on the mobo is an even bigger kick in the nuts if it's a slower gaming CPU than a year old chip. I paid $450 for my ASUS Formula with built in EK water block and 4800Mhz RAM support. I paid $480 for my 9900K which was over priced but I don't mind spending an extra $100 on a chip if it last 5 years and brings performance levels that will match the following years tech.
If I'm buying, this is why I will be going with the 3800X, Next Gen consoles will be 8 core which will influence what happens in game on PC. Only reason for the higher core chips is workloads I wont be doing at home and epe0ner envy!
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