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Old Jan 18, 2017, 12:47 AM   #601
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flopper
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Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
Bill I'm with you all the way on that but I fear that Vega won't launch until the end of 1H 2017 e.g. June. If you google around a lot of reputable sites are looking at just that time frame. It also makes sense in that Ryzen is supposedly launching in March and I don't think AMD have the marketing spend or support to launch Ryzen and Vega within a month of each other.

It's understandable, being a CPU manufacturer, that AMD would want to have a bit of basking in the sunshine if Ryzen proves to be a competitive part across the piece before launching Vega. They would also want to put every bit of their marketing budget behind it because it is a critical part of AMD's recovery. If Ryzen flops then Vega is not going to save AMD that's for sure. AMD need Ryzen to be a success more than a Vega success although, of course, both would be nice.

From a personal point of view I've already made my new platform choice and I'm going i7 7700K, Asus Z270 K Prime mobo and 16gb DDR4 2400 ram. It will all be installed by 27/01. I did think long and hard about Ryzen but I don't think it will be competitive with an i7 7700K for what I will be using it for and probably a bit more expensive being an 8c/16t part. That's just my personal 2c's.
If something is about to be released and you dont know what the performance delta are, well I would wait, anything else dont make sense.

A new arc with Vega always as usual will be immense driver improvements over time. Vega 2/Navi will have an easier release time.
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Old Jan 18, 2017, 02:36 AM   #602
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I have a fear that the 8c/16t Zen will be the only one worth buying, unfortunately.
eh we have to see what they can get on clocks for the 4c parts. (I am truly hoping that they do a 4c/8t part) I mean if they can break 4.0ghz on the base clock of a 4c/8t part they would be in pretty good competition of skylake. But at this point it is a waiting game.
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Old Jan 18, 2017, 10:51 AM   #603
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I'm curious to see if the big hitters of motherboards for the workstation / server market ( Supermicro, Tyan and to a lesser extent, Asus ), adopt the new CPU for their product line as that would be a solid vote of confidence that the product is competitive and reliable, given the customers that those motherboard brands supply, which includes those intending to build the next generation super computers.....



AMD already showed a 32 core version of the chip for this very market, so it's basically four 8 Core / 16 thread modules built into the same CPU......Intel's Xeon Skylake that will replace broadwell Xeon's, will pack the same number of cores too so AMD wants a piece of this ( extremely ) profitable market without a doubt.



I'd definitely look at it to replace my current Xeon Setup if the performance and stability is there, and comes at a better price than a comparable Xeon setup......It would obviously still be expensive if we go by the average CPU that goes into an average desktop, but that comes with the territory.
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Old Jan 18, 2017, 12:43 PM   #604
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eh we have to see what they can get on clocks for the 4c parts. (I am truly hoping that they do a 4c/8t part) I mean if they can break 4.0ghz on the base clock of a 4c/8t part they would be in pretty good competition of skylake. But at this point it is a waiting game.
With the chinese rumor being that the 4 core 8t part being 150$ itll sell like hotcakes no matter the base clock 3.4 or 4.0... I highly doubt itll be 3.4 tho.

Even just going by clocks on intel 4 core vs 8 core we have a good idea of where that part will go.
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Old Jan 18, 2017, 12:48 PM   #605
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Anyhow back to the main topic, I already have 2500$ set aside for 3 high end Vegas.......Hopefully, that'll get me the 16GB versions, since I do plan to move to a 5K screen and eventually an 8K one, and just the frame buffer requirements ( especially the 8K screen ), will get steep just with current games, never mind more demanding one's over the next 2~3 years.


Add that I water cool and it is labor intensive to replace the stock coolers for water blocks, check for leaks, bleed the loop and make it all look nice, so as much as 3 Vega cards working together is overkill right now, it won't be in the long run, and I don't mess with it except for driver updates, until cards twice as fast as those are out and that takes a long time.


I have a feeling I'll make use of those 16GB on each basically.......
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Old Jan 18, 2017, 03:16 PM   #606
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Anyhow back to the main topic, I already have 2500$ set aside for 3 high end Vegas.......Hopefully, that'll get me the 16GB versions, since I do plan to move to a 5K screen and eventually an 8K one, and just the frame buffer requirements ( especially the 8K screen ), will get steep just with current games, never mind more demanding one's over the next 2~3 years.


Add that I water cool and it is labor intensive to replace the stock coolers for water blocks, check for leaks, bleed the loop and make it all look nice, so as much as 3 Vega cards working together is overkill right now, it won't be in the long run, and I don't mess with it except for driver updates, until cards twice as fast as those are out and that takes a long time.


I have a feeling I'll make use of those 16GB on each basically.......
8gb should be fine for 4k or 5k

and by the time a good 8k screen that is big enouph to be usable you should have 3 navi cards
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Old Jan 18, 2017, 06:17 PM   #607
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8gb should be fine for 4k or 5k

and by the time a good 8k screen that is big enouph to be usable you should have 3 navi cards

Given that I demand cards twice as fast each time I sawp cards and being that Navi is still using the same 14 nm process as Vega, and it'll likely take the 10 nm process, I think we'll be looking after the Navi generation....


The fab process availability still remains the biggest hurdle to both AMD and Nvidia's product schedules and relative performance improvement....
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Old Jan 18, 2017, 10:03 PM   #608
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I believe that the navi over Vega performance increase will be much the same like fury X was over R390x because both still shared the same fabrication process, and this also applies to Nvidia's Volta over Pascal, as Volta is still using the 16nm fab process from TSMC, so the performance will go up but it'll be unlikely to be mind blowing either.
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Old Jan 19, 2017, 01:01 AM   #609
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I believe that the navi over Vega performance increase will be much the same like fury X was over R390x because both still shared the same fabrication process, and this also applies to Nvidia's Volta over Pascal, as Volta is still using the 16nm fab process from TSMC, so the performance will go up but it'll be unlikely to be mind blowing either.
New process manufacturing is slowing down so hopefully new tech will be there to increase the gains again. the same way 3D nand changed SSD from unreliable to reliable and also added longevity.
Navi may be multi module also
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Old Jan 19, 2017, 09:28 AM   #610
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New process manufacturing is slowing down so hopefully new tech will be there to increase the gains again. the same way 3D nand changed SSD from unreliable to reliable and also added longevity.
Navi may be multi module also


I suppose going multi module is an option, but one has to keep in mind that even for a high end card, the majority of potential buyers don't want the end product costing much more than the usual ~700$ (US) price point at retail, which said point includes the profits and manufacturing costs for AMD and profit margins for distributors, and end retail outlets where we as end consumers buy the cards themselves......


The maneuvering room is pretty thin for multi module designs that increase overall complexity, as the PCB is may likely be more complex, since each module needs to be powered up, and that there may be the need for a bus for the modules to communicate between each other, and for each to communicate to the PCI-e bus too......


Another example is simply seeing the price tag of dual GPU cards, which is a multi module design in it's own way as it is using a pair of GPU's that have to talk to each other and be powered up, and the PCB is much more complex too, and the overall card uses a lot more power, and these which easily start at 1000$.......The only drawback in a dual GPU card is that each GPU has it's own memory, while a multi module design may not need to.


Basically, there has been multi module designs in the past but they were professional graphics cards and with a seriously nasty price tag:





Company called 3Dlabs used to make them.
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Old Jan 19, 2017, 05:06 PM   #611
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Back on thread if Vega is about £600 I'm going to get one definitely. Above that I'll have to have a good hard look at performance before I buy it. Personally, for me, if it can beat a 1080 then I think it will do well if it can stomp it even better.

If it comes out at <£750 I'll give it a miss and just wait for the price drop like the fiji duo. If needs be my Fury Pro will last a bit longer.
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