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Old Feb 2, 2004, 09:32 PM   #1
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Perky McGiggles
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Question Once NV40 gets here, how many ATi owners are going to make the switch?

Obviously Nvidia is going to fix the DX9 issue they've had for the FX series. So once NV40 hits shelves, how many of you current ATi owners are going to upgrade to the new nvidia cards?

As for me, most likely I'll go get a NV40 if they prove to be better than the R420. Or even if the performance of both chipsets prove to be equal, I think I'll make the switch to the NV40.
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Old Feb 2, 2004, 09:43 PM   #2
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It would have to be alot better and cheap, NV has burnt a few bridges. IS it faster if NV says its faster or futuremark or some other dodgy fan site?
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Old Feb 2, 2004, 09:49 PM   #3
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Yeah I could see myself doing that if the nv40 performs relaitvely well with the r420. Reason being, better drivers and no HL/CS performance issues.
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Old Feb 2, 2004, 09:54 PM   #4
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Default Re: Once NV40 gets here, how many ATi owners are going to make the switch?

Quote:
Originally posted by maXimusXP
Obviously Nvidia is going to fix the DX9 issue they've had for the FX series.
I don't think it is that obvious. However if their performance is better than ATI and they don't cheat and price wise it is valid then why wouldn't you make the switch.
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Old Feb 2, 2004, 10:06 PM   #5
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I wont.

I hate nVidia.
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Old Feb 2, 2004, 11:35 PM   #6
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Hmm, that depends. Right now, NV is not on my good side. I just don't trust them. They would have to put out a quality product for at least a generation that doesn't use "optimizations" or cut corners in banchmarks, etc. Maybe NV50, who knows. Never say never. But I will stay away from them on my next upgrade cycle. They would have to completely destroy ATI, which I doubt would happen.
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Old Feb 3, 2004, 08:03 AM   #7
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It would be pretty stupid to say you will buy one card or another when we don't know anything about either product.

'Wait and see' gets my vote.
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Old Feb 3, 2004, 08:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hanners
It would be pretty stupid to say you will buy one card or another when we don't know anything about either product.

'Wait and see' gets my vote.
Basically what I was going to post. Let nVidia release thier card then wait till ATI does the same and make a choice when both are on the market.
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Old Feb 3, 2004, 01:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crawdaddy79
I wont.

I hate nVidia.
2nd
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Old Feb 3, 2004, 01:19 PM   #10
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After their cheating drivers, bad corporate behavior (FutureMark) and defective
FX product line (bad DX9), why would ANYBODY give ANY money to Nvidia for
ANYTHING until they totally change their ways?

WHY SUPPORT THEM AT ALL????

If they change by making their drivers legit, stop the bad corporate behavior
and have a rock solid piece of hardware that doesn't double as a shop-vac,
then MAYBE they are worth a look - like in 6 months to 1 year or something.

Don't be so easy to forgive this behavior or they may just keep on putting
the screws to the customers and the industry.
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Old Feb 3, 2004, 02:15 PM   #11
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Im loyal to the company that sells a fast card for lower than the competitor.

So once r420 and NV40 come out I will wait untill some sites I trust have reviews, check forums, check prices, then decide.

I would never decide what I'm going to buy just because a certain company made it.
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Old Feb 3, 2004, 04:17 PM   #12
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Another thing.. I would wait until AFTER the first iteration of the r4x0 and NV4x lines before actually buying anything. I think it took a few months for the industry to come to terms on the "cheating ways" of a certain company. If the preliminary benchies show NV on top I wouldn't sweat it. Not until after I have seen a dozen reviews and got an overall feel for the product in question for a few months would I purchase it. That was much the reasoning I had when I purchased my current card, r9800pro 256MB.
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Old Feb 3, 2004, 06:15 PM   #13
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I might consider it if it's clearly better and the same price or less.

The problem with the rumors of "OMFG ATI R420 Killa!" is that
1) It's still using FP16. Waste of die space. More die = more expensive to make.
2) Driver shenanagains will probably continue. I can easily envision attempts to cheat on any and all synthetic and gaming benchmarks where the NV40 does badly.
3) The NV30 was supposed to be the "OMG R300 Killah!" but it was a steaming pile instead.
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Old Feb 3, 2004, 08:14 PM   #14
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I wouldn't consider buying it without reading extensive benchmarks, IQ comparisons along with user posts on a forum. I would do the same for the R420. Spending that much money on a purchase without doing extensive research seems very stupid to me.

Like many people here, Nvidia isn't in my "good book" but I don't think they're dumb enough to make the same mistake twice, so NV40 should be good.
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Old Feb 4, 2004, 05:44 AM   #15
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i would consider it if it performs well and does not fall behind the competition.
I don't care much about what Nvidia did in the past.
If i would care about that every day i even could not buy any ATI, AMD or Intel products.
All have cheated in one way or the other so to me it does not make any difference.

If it performs well, offers nice AA and AF i definatly will consider it.
Concerning Shaders well i don't care if a shader is done in FP32 or FP16 as long as i won't see a visual difference while playing.
To me all those cheating crap is overrated. I don't want a shader to be done in FP24 minimum because some company calls it the minimum spec.
If the shader is pretty simple (and that only depends on how the developer has programmed it) and the output with FP16 is the same like with FP24 or FP32 i can live with a manual replacement in the driver because it gives me more performance out of the hardware i bought. Because a shader is done in FP32 does not mean necessarily that the IQ is better than in Fp24 or FP16. That depends on the shader and its output qualitywise.

If Nvidia delivers nice FP32 performance and can get some extra performance out of their FP16 or mixed mode - fine with me. Of course i will closlely look at IQ comparisons but if the difference only can be seen while taking a screenshot and zooming in several times - i won't care because i won't see it while playing anyway.
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Old Feb 4, 2004, 07:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by holmes
Hmm, that depends. Right now, NV is not on my good side. I just don't trust them. They would have to put out a quality product for at least a generation that doesn't use "optimizations" or cut corners in banchmarks, etc. Maybe NV50, who knows. Never say never. But I will stay away from them on my next upgrade cycle. They would have to completely destroy ATI, which I doubt would happen.
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Old Feb 4, 2004, 02:27 PM   #17
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I'm all for whichever card performs the best.

Leaning towards nVidia currently if the two are close; ATI's recent drivers have broken my system, and I'm none too pleased about it.
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Old Feb 4, 2004, 05:21 PM   #18
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If nvidia doesnt that cheating **** and bsing the general public with there pr yeah ill consider getting a fx-6k but i iwll end up waiting till they do a geforce 4 ti4200 thingy
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Old Feb 4, 2004, 06:24 PM   #19
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It will take some time for me to trust nVidia again. NV40 would have to be better, and stay better, without driver cheats or other screwiness for six months or so before I'd consider them again.
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Old Feb 4, 2004, 06:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by lowinor
I'm all for whichever card performs the best.

Leaning towards nVidia currently if the two are close; ATI's recent drivers have broken my system, and I'm none too pleased about it.
Thats kind of the way I feel about it, I'm leaning towards nVidia, but if ATi is clearly the one which performans best, than ATi it is!
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Old Feb 4, 2004, 08:41 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by maXimusXP
Thats kind of the way I feel about it, I'm leaning towards nVidia, but if ATi is clearly the one which performans best, than ATi it is!
So even with all the crap Nvidia has pulled, you still feel ok supporting them by
purchasing their products?
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Old Feb 4, 2004, 08:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by showler
It will take some time for me to trust nVidia again. NV40 would have to be better, and stay better, without driver cheats or other screwiness for six months or so before I'd consider them again.
I completely agree with you.

I'm somewhat stunned at how people are willing to overlook all the bad things that
Nvidia has been a part of in recent times. Cheating drivers, The FutureMark scandal,
defective DX 9 part, etc.

You would think that Nvidia would have to earn the business back by performing in a
consistently above-board fashion with a solid DX9 part for at least 6 months to a year...

Sometimes I just don't get it I guess.
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Old Feb 5, 2004, 06:14 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheMonkeyBoyz
So even with all the crap Nvidia has pulled, you still feel ok supporting them by
purchasing their products?
Why punish yourself rather than simply buy the best product available?

If nVidia were killing children and supporting terrorism I might agree with you, but in the grand scheme of things driver cheats aren't some kind of unforgivable sin... And if they are totally unforgivable to you, why are you buying ATi?

Don't get me wrong, I loathe the way nVidia has behaved on a number of counts in the last 12-18 months, but if NV40 is better than R420, I'm not going to make myself suffer and not buy nVidia just to 'teach them a lesson'.
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Old Feb 5, 2004, 07:12 AM   #24
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i'm hoping the nv40 outperforms ati's next offering simply to rid this forum of negative forum goers (the ones who follow the tread), leaving us innocent forum goers to post and live in peace.
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Old Feb 5, 2004, 09:54 AM   #25
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That's exactly the point. Do you trust nVidia? The FX line initially showed promise and even outperformed ATI in certain benchmarks, until certain "optimization" became uncovered. I believe that somehow discredits them, which is why I still won't buy a card from them until far after the initial hoopla dies down (e.g. if they're ahead). That's when it will be quite clear if NV has put a stop to its cheating ways (i.e. if any funny business is uncovered)...
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Old Feb 5, 2004, 10:03 AM   #26
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Sure NV isn't killing children and supporting terrorism (I hope), but I believe the people deserve to have a product that does do what the marketing machine says it will do. The moment a company lies to the public, not only that, but continues to do it is the biggest "UP YOURS" they can make to the consumer. Don't you see, it's we who get shafted if we continue to get it up the rear and say "thank you sir, may I have another" by supporting companies with such unscrupulous business practices. Well, I'm not going to let that happen to me. I say vote with your wallet.

Power to the people.
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Old Feb 5, 2004, 02:43 PM   #27
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Default .

I've had my 9700pro for a long time now,
And with the release of alot of new games i'm shopping for a new one from the forthcoming generation.

If NV400 clearly dominates the benchmarks then i'll go back to Nv for sure. If Ati clearly dominates the benches then i'll stick ATI. If its a toss-up i'll have to do some heavy research and find out which one is more stable and has the best performance in the games I play.

I honestly don't give a flying F**k about who did what with this benchmark 6months to 3years ago. I care about what i can toss in my rig and how much it'll cost me.

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Old Feb 5, 2004, 02:47 PM   #28
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Default Re: .

Quote:
Originally posted by --Icy--
I've had my 9700pro for a long time now,
And with the release of alot of new games i'm shopping for a new one from the forthcoming generation.

If NV400 clearly dominates the benchmarks then i'll go back to Nv for sure. If Ati clearly dominates the benches then i'll stick ATI. If its a toss-up i'll have to do some heavy research and find out which one is more stable and has the best performance in the games I play.

I honestly don't give a flying **** about who did what with this benchmark 6months to 3years ago. I care about what i can toss in my rig and how much it'll cost me.

--Icy--
It's attitudes like that which enable companies like Nvidia to get away with putting the
screws to consumers time and time again.

Sad...

Doesn't anyone hold companies accountable anymore?
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Old Feb 5, 2004, 02:53 PM   #29
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Default .

So you'd buy an inferior product for more money?

Not saying thats how it'll turn out,
but if thats so then i question your inteligence as a human being.

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Old Feb 5, 2004, 03:03 PM   #30
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Default Re: .

Quote:
Originally posted by --Icy--
So you'd buy an inferior product for more money?

Not saying thats how it'll turn out,
but if thats so then i question your inteligence as a human being.

--Icy--
You wouldn't be the first to question that...

I would buy a slower product for more money as a matter of principle, yes.

Sometimes taking a stand can hurt.

When ATI cheated on the Quake/Quack thing, I bailed on them and bought
a $350 Leadtek Geforce 3 TI 500. First Nvidia purchase I'd ever made. Why
did I do it? ATI did not deserve my money. I had bought their Radeon 64
meg VIVO and liked it, but they cheated and reacted badly by denying it
and I voted with my wallet.

Nvidia started cheating in drivers after the 30.82 release, and their lame
naming game with the Geforce 4 MX bugged me, then the FX line came
out and was broken in DX 9, which they tried to hide, by the way. When
their corporate conduct started to become questionable, I'd had enough.

I opted to pay $400 for an ATI 9800 Pro. ATI had cleaned up its act from
a couple years back, had been more willing to remove "optimizations" from
their drivers when called on it, and they dedicated more resources to driver
fixes and updates. They had an honest architecture that did not try to
force you to drop back to DX 8 to get good performance, did not take the
kind of image quality sacrificing short-cuts that Nvidia did and while they
did play some of the same stupid PR games that Nvidia did, they did not
try to strong arm FutureMark with legal threats and then BUY THEM OFF
to shut them up.

So yes, when I feel strongly about something, particularly on matters of
principle, I make choices that have consequences. Sometimes it is based
on convenience, sometimes cost. That is the name of the game if you try
to take a principled stand.

I walk the talk.
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