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Old Oct 22, 2021, 02:19 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Munkus View Post
Yep. A live round should not have even been on the set, much less inserted into the gun instead of a blank. I hate speculating, but this seems intentional to me. I have a hard time believing that the props team would inadvertantly put a live round into the gun. There are policies and procedures in place to prevent that kind of "mistake" - such as not allowing live ammunition on a movie set.

I'm very interested to follow this investigation to see how the facts pan out. Either way, it sounds like Alec Baldwin is understandably devastated.
I agree with you. I’ve known set folks in the past, and safety protocols are pretty stringent, on paper anyway. But per the video Elysian posted, even Baldwin was complaining about the staffs 17 hour workdays, that they were all exhausted.

So again, I’m just staying with “tragic accident” until hard evidence/reports are released. I do feel bad for Baldwin. I may not care for him, but I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
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Old Oct 22, 2021, 02:26 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Munkus View Post
Yep. A live round should not have even been on the set, much less inserted into the gun instead of a blank. I hate speculating, but this seems intentional to me. I have a hard time believing that the props team would inadvertantly put a live round into the gun. There are policies and procedures in place to prevent that kind of "mistake" - such as not allowing live ammunition on a movie set.

I'm very interested to follow this investigation to see how the facts pan out. Either way, it sounds like Alec Baldwin is understandably devastated.
I wonder if there are chain of custody procedures when prop firearms are involved.
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Old Oct 22, 2021, 02:49 PM   #33
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I don't understand the reason for using blanks anymore. All that stuff can be added in post very easily and doesn't take long at all. All they have to do is send the actor to a training ground to get a feel for the physics and then recreate it as best as possible.

I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes the union rule from now on after this incident.
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Old Oct 22, 2021, 02:57 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Koenig View Post
I don't understand the reason for using blanks anymore. All that stuff can be added in post very easily and doesn't take long at all. All they have to do is send the actor to a training ground to get a feel for the physics and then recreate it as best as possible.

I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes the union rule from now on after this incident.
realism

they can and do add the sound but the smoke of those old black powder weapons is a lot harder to add after and never looks right
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Old Oct 22, 2021, 03:12 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
realism

they can and do add the sound but the smoke of those old black powder weapons is a lot harder to add after and never looks right
You can record the smoke and fire against a green or blue screen and composite them in post. There are actually a bunch of websites of vfx guys blowing up and shooting stuff to create a huge resource library for amateur and professional film crew now.

Only issue is lighting it to match the film scene which can be done by shooting the scene and then removing the actors in the scene with a rig to shoot with the actual prop to add in later.
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Old Oct 22, 2021, 03:56 PM   #36
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It just got A WHOLE LOT deeper.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...walked-off-set

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“Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue to shooting,” the knowledgeable person said.

There were two misfires on the prop gun and one the previous week, the person said, adding “there was a serious lack of safety meetings on this set.”
The cinematographer who was accidentally killed, Halyna Hutchins, had been advocating for safer conditions for her team, said one crew member who was on the set.

As the camera crew — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — spent about an hour assembling their gear at the Bonanza Creek Ranch, several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, the knowledgeable person said.

A member of the producer staff then ordered the union members to leave the set. She said if they didn’t leave, the producers would call security to remove them.

“Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue to shooting,” the knowledgeable person said.

There were two misfires on the prop gun and one the previous week, the person said, adding “there was a serious lack of safety meetings on this set.”
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Old Oct 22, 2021, 04:10 PM   #37
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The IATSE just threatened to go on strike recently and just prior to the strike begining, the union worked out a deal afaik. I'm unsure why production would kick union members off the set even though the strike had been avoided.

Looks like it's not Baldwin's fault at all. I can't see a guy acting as long as he has pointing guns, prop or not, directly at crew members and pulling the trigger. Doesn't seem like good business, and Baldwin is all about his money.
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Old Oct 22, 2021, 04:15 PM   #38
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Old Oct 22, 2021, 04:39 PM   #39
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That's shitty. I'm sure the production industry is shitting it's pants since they just calmed the IATSE down. This should cause their union to go back to war.
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Old Oct 22, 2021, 04:53 PM   #40
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I still don't get how a live round ended up on set. The finger prints on that shell belong the one who is responsible for this.
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Old Oct 22, 2021, 05:20 PM   #41
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I still don't get how a live round ended up on set. The finger prints on that shell belong the one who is responsible for this.
maybe if stupid and on purpose

got to wonder if this was part of a union vs non union fight


purposeful accidents is a old union tactic
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Old Oct 22, 2021, 06:17 PM   #42
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maybe if stupid and on purpose

got to wonder if this was part of a union vs non union fight


purposeful accidents is a old union tactic
That union guy did say they had no representation there. If so that's just evil.

Those old single action revolvers shoot big ass rounds. Showed my wife a .45acp today, and said imagine about 30-40% more length on that round filled with powder, and that long barrel.
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Old Oct 22, 2021, 07:57 PM   #43
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That union guy did say they had no representation there. If so that's just evil.

Those old single action revolvers shoot big ass rounds. Showed my wife a .45acp today, and said imagine about 30-40% more length on that round filled with powder, and that long barrel.
no it's filled with a big ass soft lead bullet with no jacket that will mushroom to near 3x it's diameter
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Old Oct 22, 2021, 09:50 PM   #44
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no it's filled with a big ass soft lead bullet with no jacket that will mushroom to near 3x it's diameter
old school hollow points.
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 06:54 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
maybe if stupid and on purpose

got to wonder if this was part of a union vs non union fight


purposeful accidents is a old union tactic

I suspect that myself, especially considering the union rep about safety on the set around guns.... the "exact issue last night" before leaving the set in the morning.
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 08:13 AM   #46
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Some excellent memes on this though my god lol
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 08:53 AM   #47
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Wow... So the head armorer was basically afraid of guns, and not remotely qualified to be in charge of them...

Negligent homicide IMO.

Quote:
The 24-year-old head armorer in charge of guns on Alec Baldwin film where cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was tragically shot and killed on Thursday had admitted she wasn't sure she was ready for the job in an interview before filming started.

'I almost didn't take the job because I wasn't sure if I was ready, but doing it, it went really smoothly,' Hannah Gutierrez-Reed said in a podcast interview last month after leading the firearms department for The Old Way, starring Nicolas Cage - her first time as head armorer.

She also admitted in the podcast interview she found loading blanks into a gun 'the scariest' thing because she did not know how to do it and had sought help from her father, legendary gunsmith Thell Reed, to get over the fear.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dwin-film.html
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 01:07 PM   #48
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Get the tinfoil!

Quote:
he husband of Halyna Hutchins, the cinematographer who was fatally shot by actor Alec Baldwin with a prop gun on Thursday, is a corporate lawyer in Latham & Watkins' Los Angeles office.

Matt Hutchins joined Latham as an associate this year. Earlier he was an in-house lawyer at an entertainment company and practiced at Kirkland & Ellis and Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, according to his LinkedIn profile.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/legali...er-2021-10-22/

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"Mr. Sussmann has committed no crime," attorneys Sean Berkowitz and Michael Bosworth of the law firm Latham and Watkins said. "Any prosecution here would be baseless, unprecedented, and an unwarranted deviation from the apolitical and principled way in which the Department of Justice is supposed to do its work."
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/lawy...ry?id=80065406

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Old Oct 23, 2021, 01:24 PM   #49
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Saw this posted. I didn't confirm it(to lazy lol).
Odd if true.


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"Alec Baldwin shot a woman who grew up in Murmansk on a Soviet base in the Arctic Circle “surrounded by nuclear submarines”

Meanwhile:

Alec Baldwin starred in the film, The Hunt for Red October, wherein he helps hunt down a Russian nuclear submarine that was originally docked in Murmansk on a Soviet base in the Arctic Circle.

What. The. #."
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 02:54 PM   #50
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is it possible a live round got mixed in with blanks from the manufacturer's side? And due to inexperience and fatigue it being a live round was missed because of improper inspections by the team?
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 03:43 PM   #51
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No way on earth a real live round should ever be on set, unless it's with armed security. Also, my understanding was that these prop guns are designed so they can't fit real ammo. Meaning, the gun's magazine and chamber are too small to fit a full length case with bullet. So even if someone tried to load it with real ammo it simply won't fit.

So if that's correct then this was a real gun not a prop gun. Which, again, WHY ON EARTH is a real gun on set??

That said, my sympathy and heart go out to the families involved.

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I would think so. But my guess is it takes away from the authenticity, probably looks obviously fake.
Almost all movie gun shots look fake. Guns fired in movies don't move or respond like real guns, so that part of authenticity isn't the concern. They certainly don't sound real, either. I think the only part of it they care about is the look of the gun, which yeah they usually do look like the real deal.
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 04:27 PM   #52
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No way on earth a real live round should ever be on set, unless it's with armed security. Also, my understanding was that these prop guns are designed so they can't fit real ammo. Meaning, the gun's magazine and chamber are too small to fit a full length case with bullet. So even if someone tried to load it with real ammo it simply won't fit.

So if that's correct then this was a real gun not a prop gun. Which, again, WHY ON EARTH is a real gun on set??

That said, my sympathy and heart go out to the families involved.



Almost all movie gun shots look fake. Guns fired in movies don't move or respond like real guns, so that part of authenticity isn't the concern. They certainly don't sound real, either. I think the only part of it they care about is the look of the gun, which yeah they usually do look like the real deal.
nope most are real guns more so the old western guns


the problem is they sometimes have to show what looks like a real full cartage ( case bullet with no powder and fired primer ) like when a guy is loading a gun on screen and you do see that alot in movies

so the dent in the primer is the only way to tell it is not a live round
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 05:52 PM   #53
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They should hire cops or vets to be in charge of all the firearms. Clearly the Hollywood type that think they kill people by themselves aren't qualified to do so. Loading the blanks was scary.

She was so damn useless at that job she couldn't tell a live round from a crimped blank?

This woman was killed by incompetence.
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 07:22 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
nope most are real guns more so the old western guns


the problem is they sometimes have to show what looks like a real full cartage ( case bullet with no powder and fired primer ) like when a guy is loading a gun on screen and you do see that alot in movies

so the dent in the primer is the only way to tell it is not a live round
Well that's honestly very...not smart. In my opinion they don't need to have even live-looking rounds on set. You film that stuff off set when there aren't people around, then edit the scenes together. That's why there are editors, storyboard experts, etc.

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Originally Posted by Greasy View Post
They should hire cops or vets to be in charge of all the firearms. Clearly the Hollywood type that think they kill people by themselves aren't qualified to do so. Loading the blanks was scary.

She was so damn useless at that job she couldn't tell a live round from a crimped blank?

This woman was killed by incompetence.
Aren't there actual professional armorers, who are hired to do this exact sort of thing? I have a hard time believing Hollywood doesn't have that even as a unionized thing.
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 08:47 PM   #55
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Well that's honestly very...not smart. In my opinion they don't need to have even live-looking rounds on set. You film that stuff off set when there aren't people around, then edit the scenes together. That's why there are editors, storyboard experts, etc.



Aren't there actual professional armorers, who are hired to do this exact sort of thing? I have a hard time believing Hollywood doesn't have that even as a unionized thing.
and maybe we should outlaw planes trains and automobiles as they kill more people every year

then all industry
https://apnews.com/hub/industrial-accidents


and maybe CGI all movies 100% no real people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...sion_accidents
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 09:06 PM   #56
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Well that's honestly very...not smart. In my opinion they don't need to have even live-looking rounds on set. You film that stuff off set when there aren't people around, then edit the scenes together. That's why there are editors, storyboard experts, etc.



Aren't there actual professional armorers, who are hired to do this exact sort of thing? I have a hard time believing Hollywood doesn't have that even as a unionized thing.
Read the rest of the thread. She was a "professional" according to Hollywood. She wasn't qualified in the least, and apparently they didn't have anyone from the union that normally oversees this stuff for them on set. Cut corners, and this is what happens. They can call it a prop gun all day, but it was a very real gun, with a very real bullet in it.

Old Alec's tweet about killing someone didn't age too well for him either. Well now he knows the answer to his own question.
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 10:37 PM   #57
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and maybe we should outlaw planes trains and automobiles as they kill more people every year

then all industry
https://apnews.com/hub/industrial-accidents


and maybe CGI all movies 100% no real people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...sion_accidents
Take it easy, you're completely misunderstanding me. I'm talking specifically about gun safety in a situation where there doesn't need to be any real guns. But bottom line is, why were there ANY real bullets on set? And these Hollywood types aren't exactly firearms experts so there should be experts on hand. That's my point.

As for automobiles, yeah they are super dangerous and cause all kinds of pain and death, not to mention expense. But that's a totally different kind of discussion.
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 12:11 AM   #58
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Take it easy, you're completely misunderstanding me. I'm talking specifically about gun safety in a situation where there doesn't need to be any real guns. But bottom line is, why were there ANY real bullets on set? And these Hollywood types aren't exactly firearms experts so there should be experts on hand. That's my point.

As for automobiles, yeah they are super dangerous and cause all kinds of pain and death, not to mention expense. But that's a totally different kind of discussion.
no there should not be "ANY real bullets on set"
we need to wait on the full investigation whether this was an accident or or not

but it's not like it happens every month or even once a year on a movie
i think the last one was 93 with the crow


accidents do happen .

and accidents happen more so when people cut corners to save money
and it doesn't matter if it is a gun or a car crash stunt or any stunt or any job site , cut corners and someone can die
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 07:34 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
no there should not be "ANY real bullets on set"
we need to wait on the full investigation whether this was an accident or or not

but it's not like it happens every month or even once a year on a movie
i think the last one was 93 with the crow


accidents do happen .

and accidents happen more so when people cut corners to save money
and it doesn't matter if it is a gun or a car crash stunt or any stunt or any job site , cut corners and someone can die
When any accident happens in business, the response isn't "eh accidents happen." They can't because insurance companies are going to want to know how they plan to avoid that in the future. Not just insurance though, unions, regulators, etc. So yeah, this can be 100% preventable and should be in the future now with current AI driven vfx.
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Old Oct 24, 2021, 12:32 PM   #60
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In my opinion prop guns or any gun to be used on set should be checked by a professional. Then handed straight to the actor. No middle man no time between shoots to be tampered with.
And when I mean checked each blank taken out inspected then reloaded.
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