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Old Jul 18, 2019, 04:44 PM   #1591
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the_sextein
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I don't watch JayZ2cents very often for reviews but it's not because I don't like him. I just haven't done it for whatever reason so I don't have an opinion of him yet review wise. However, I did watch many of his liquid cooling videos when I was building my first custom loop and they were very helpful.
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Old Jul 18, 2019, 04:54 PM   #1592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_sextein View Post
I don't watch JayZ2cents very often for reviews but it's not because I don't like him. I just haven't done it for whatever reason so I don't have an opinion of him yet review wise. However, I did watch many of his liquid cooling videos when I was building my first custom loop and they were very helpful.
His reviews are typically very limited IMO. I enjoy his videos, but I do NOT rely on him for numbers like I would GN. Jay is one of my favorite channels though, because of the builds he does. I enjoy his sense of humor too.
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Old Jul 18, 2019, 05:24 PM   #1593
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so cooler is better





…………

Newegg has the 3800x in stock for now
I grabbed one

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Old Jul 18, 2019, 07:00 PM   #1594
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I'm at work this morning, reading up on how AMD claims their 5700 series pricing was designed to bait Nvidia as they had price cuts planned all along.

Quote:
this wasn’t a reaction to the GeForce Super graphics cards but a pre-planned move designed to bait Nvidia into over-pricing its graphics cards.

Quote:
The prices that we originally put out, we waited to see what they put out,” continued Herkelman. “And then we made the appropriate move not only to deposition their Super series but also to logjam their 2060 and 2070, because we knew that they’re having slower success. And we wanted to do a double [bluff], which was not only to block their Super strategy but also slow down their 2060 and 2070. I can't go into too much more about detail, but it's been so much fun these last couple of weeks just playing that out. It's just fun finally to win.”
Very good!
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Old Jul 18, 2019, 08:51 PM   #1595
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I posted a link to a review video from gamers nexus and a review site for toms hardware. I included pictures of RE 2 before as well. You can't even be bothered to look a few pages back to see that this retarded video you posted has already been posted and bashed to hell. You fanboys really don't get it. I don't care about Intel or AMD. I'm not going to buy for years and the last setup I bought was the fastest available. It had nothing to do with brands because I'm not a retard. I have owned the FX-51 and the FX 60 CPU's from AMD and have no problems buying from them again. The problem we are having now is that I used common sense guestimates that led me to believe this chip would be slower and more expensive despite being late with low OC potential. People got mad and baited me on for pages because they hate people who disagree with them regardless of the reason.

It turned out slower and more expensive despite being a year late and it had even worse OC potential than I thought. I was right and everyone threw a little temper tantrum. They got B!tch smacked for making ignorant blanket statements just like you are currently doing which is uncalled for. I don't want to argue guy, please just look at reality without the bias. If I have reason to believe that AMD's next chip is going to be faster or slower than I will say so. If I don't have a reason to believe one way over the other then I won't say anything at all. If I think it's going to be more powerful or less powerful and I get jumped by ignorant fanboys again then I will defend my views until the facts arrive. If I'm wrong then I will admit it. If I'm right then I will slam it in everyone's face that wrongfully trolled me and are too stubborn to accept the facts of life. I couldn't care less if Intel gets beat by AMD, If anything I want AMD to beat them so that we have some competition. I just don't have a problem admitting that AMD's current CPU line is basically the 3700X and that's it. None of these can beat Intel at gaming and the differences between the chips for the mainstream audiences they are being sold to are very poor. The 3700X is a good chip and so is the 3600. The 3900X is great for content creation. Being able to upgrade from your last board is nice but AMD failed to bring performance that is better than old Intel stuff for gaming and everyday computing. They always deliver less performance a year late and they never push the industry forward which is what I was complaining about. They need to up their game even more that is all there is to it.
Please go read my very first response to you again, before you start accusing me of not looking. I went back a good 6 to 7 pages and all I found was a video on metro from you. I even asked you to link it again if I missed it, and your response to me was about Tom's hardware... So please, before your start bitching, learn some reading skills. As for your fan boy comments.. go read all of your posts in this thread... The door is back behind you, when you realize you are in the wrong place.
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Old Jul 18, 2019, 09:10 PM   #1596
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The video you posted was already posted on page 50 and discussed so you must have missed it. I mentioned Gamers Nexus and toms hardware in both of my responses to you so you must have missed it. My link to the Gamers Nexus video was a couple pages back, I think two pages. I have clearly stated that I don't care who wins some hypothetical war for hardware dominance in the future. This thread is about AMD's new architecture and gains. That includes fears and criticism unless that is not allowed and was some unspoken rule when I came in here . My reading comprehension is fine. The sooner people stop baiting me with responses like this the sooner the conversation will calm down.
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Old Jul 18, 2019, 09:32 PM   #1597
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Basically Intel advantage left are only clockspeed and memory latency in regard to gaming, that's all the deduced conclusion that people gather, in other type of applications they both drew bloods from each others not to say that amd edges it out in efficiency, better cores config and performance in multi threaded scenarios like 3700x out thread 9700k and 3900x out core 9900k.
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Old Jul 18, 2019, 10:31 PM   #1598
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Yeah IPC is awesome on AMD, if only they squeezed a couple more hundred MHz out of them they would dominate in every area.
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Old Jul 18, 2019, 11:44 PM   #1599
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Old Jul 19, 2019, 01:11 AM   #1600
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Originally Posted by demo View Post
Yeah IPC is awesome on AMD, if only they squeezed a couple more hundred MHz out of them they would dominate in every area.
If they could have then they would have. I think both AMD and Intel are running into heat issues with higher core counts. It's easy for AMD to slap the chiplets into a CPU and clock them lower to save on heat. Its easy for Intel to put their 14nm+++ build on a die and run it higher with less cores to save on heat.

Anymore out of either company and we get overheating and shutdowns.

It will be interesting to see how both companies combat this going forward.
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Old Jul 19, 2019, 10:11 AM   #1601
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Are we at the point where Intel and AMD are at a stalemate with physics/thermodynamics?

If silicon can stand the heat, will processors need to be manufactured with a material that can?

Or, is material - immaterial and you just can't have electricity running that close to each other?
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Old Jul 19, 2019, 12:51 PM   #1602
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I think its both heat density limit and thus clock limitations. I really dont expect even intel will get a clock boost with its 10 nm chips when they finally come out but they will get a transistor budget increase which does add to perf. At this point I think we'll see intel and amd skip past each other in perf one gen to the next. Rumor is 5nm EUV is ready at TSMC and both Navi 2nd gen and the Ryzen refresh next year will go for it instead of 7nm EUV where we are currently on 7nm DUV. 7nm EUV would add about ~20% efficiency to the current DUV 7nm but 5nm EUV would be a full node drop.

Hope its true as the transistor budget for the ryzen refresh will increase substantially tho probably in the form of more cores for the refresh vs architectural changes but maybe also a bigger IO die at 7nm instead of 12nm that could add huge amounts of cache....
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Old Jul 19, 2019, 01:21 PM   #1603
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Awesome, thanks Pax. Now I have lots to read up on.
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Old Jul 19, 2019, 04:42 PM   #1604
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Even if they spread the CPU base out and put more chiplets over a larger distance it will still generate heat that will have to be removed somehow. I think that AMD has done a pretty good job with the treadripper line design that allows for the rook on the chip to do that. It will mean, though that there would have to be changes in the plates on all the coolers to make them larger. Still wonder how they will engineer a cooler to dissipate that much heat. AIO's do a decent job but once the liquid in the loop starts to heat up the cooling job of the copper starts to suffer. And I don't know if a AIO could pull a bunch of heat off of a CPU quick enough with higher cores and higher frequencies to make it feasible.

Like I said, it is an interesting place to be in.
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Old Jul 19, 2019, 05:23 PM   #1605
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just the AIO coolers look to be too centered on the fins inside the block or too small of fin area

the big heat pipe air coolers look fine as they cover the whole chip more than some AIO coolers

same with most of the full water blocks much bigger fin area inside the block and the fins should cover all the chiplets
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Old Jul 19, 2019, 06:09 PM   #1606
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
just the AIO coolers look to be too centered on the fins inside the block or too small of fin area

the big heat pipe air coolers look fine as they cover the whole chip more than some AIO coolers

same with most of the full water blocks much bigger fin area inside the block and the fins should cover all the chiplets
Luckily, My Corsair H110i extreme is square. So I expect it'll works better compared to the different Corsair AIOs that use round.
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Old Jul 19, 2019, 06:23 PM   #1607
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I wouldn't be surprised if CPUs start hitting more serious limits in the next few years. Intel's problems moving to 10nm are sort of an indication of it. They never had trouble like this before. Granted, TSMC appears to have managed the shrink better.

But we've know for a long time that we're coming up on the limits of traditional silicon designs. That's part of why we've been seeing more stagnation in terms of performance--it's not just Intel sandbagging. Remember back in the 90s? Your two year old computer would be half the speed of a new one.

Now people are still rocking OC'd Sandy Bridge processors and doing OK seven years out. They no longer offer top of the line performance, but they're still respectable and probably comparable to something like a locked 8th/9th gen i3 (or a 7th gen i5), or a Ryzen 2200G/3200G/2400G/3400G.

It's possible that 3000 series Ryzen or 8700K/9700K/9900K will end up being good for a long time, similar to Sandy Bridge, simply because newer processors just aren't that much faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andino View Post
Even if they spread the CPU base out and put more chiplets over a larger distance it will still generate heat that will have to be removed somehow. I think that AMD has done a pretty good job with the treadripper line design that allows for the rook on the chip to do that. It will mean, though that there would have to be changes in the plates on all the coolers to make them larger. Still wonder how they will engineer a cooler to dissipate that much heat. AIO's do a decent job but once the liquid in the loop starts to heat up the cooling job of the copper starts to suffer. And I don't know if a AIO could pull a bunch of heat off of a CPU quick enough with higher cores and higher frequencies to make it feasible.

Like I said, it is an interesting place to be in.
I wonder if we'll need to go back to direct die cooling, maybe with an integrated shim so you can't accidentally crush it. But then again, if the problem is heat transfer inside the silicon itself that's not going to help. I suppose they could modify the designs to be larger dies but with more dead space for isolating/conducting heat.
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Old Jul 19, 2019, 10:54 PM   #1608
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I think they need to use dead silicon to displace the heat into. Nvidia has done that to its gpus. Spacing the traces on die and such. If they put out a chiplet where you only use every 2nd cpu with a dead one in between like a 2 chiplet 8 core Id like to see if that helps with the heat tho it could increase ccx latency I suppose.
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Old Yesterday, 12:16 AM   #1609
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well since i'm not water cooling my GPU's anymore I have a Monsta 560mm rad and 8 140mm fans just for the CPU

now if someone come out with a better block for Ryzen 3rd gen and reviews show it run a good bit cooler i'll buy one
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Old Yesterday, 11:31 AM   #1610
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Has anyone tried one of the threadripper compatible blocks on a 3900x?

Would be interesting to see if they are better than the regular am4 blocks or not.
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Old Yesterday, 11:33 AM   #1611
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Has anyone tried one of the threadripper compatible blocks on a 3900x?

Would be interesting to see if they are better than the regular am4 blocks or not.
won't fit

they are about 2x the size of a AM4
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Old Yesterday, 11:39 AM   #1612
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Oh well, what is the situation of the current am4 blocks, do the fins cover all of the chiplets or just the part of them that is close to the center?
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Old Yesterday, 11:58 AM   #1613
bill dennison
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangler View Post
Oh well, what is the situation of the current am4 blocks, do the fins cover all of the chiplets or just the part of them that is close to the center?
EK intel



https://themodzoo.com/2015/03/ek-sup...lock-review/3/

since the block is bigger than the chip the should cover most of the top of the chip

but the AMD is about the same
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-supremacy-mx-amd







or the HEATKILLER

http://shop.watercool.de/HEATKILLER-...PURE-COPPER/en

http://www.performance-pcs.com/water...re-copper.html

Last edited by bill dennison : Yesterday at 12:12 PM.
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