FireGL X1 HW mod and driver mod

[Dwarden]

@ALL:

I open this thread for issue in topic, so please keep with it, also garbage get deleted from it ASAP ...

As many of You noticed you can theoretically (for now) mod resistors to change reference design 9700pro into FireGL X1 (based on r9700pro chip)

also another way is to modify X1 drivers to cooperate with your R9700 pro ...

also one step will be bios (warp_11 where are you?

so post your tries, driver research, bioses and results here

@R3D mods, not sure if this thread should not be in R9700 but it's tweak

@ATI thanks for providing us with one of best moddable serie of radeons ...

[Dwarden]

Well,
snapshot of difference between 9500p/9700p/FireGL M1/X1 pro looks this



it's located from core to left ...


so far i know M1 is similar to X1 ...

---

who there own ATI FireGL X1 (on 9700p) or ATI FireGL Z1 (on 9500p) ?

can You post snapshot of Your resistor area and send me bios?

difference is small, but it is

9700p
http://mirror.ati.com/products/pc/ra...pro/specs.html

FireGL X1 (on 9700p)
http://www.ati.com/products/workstat...lx1/specs.html

FireGL Z1 (on 9500)
http://www.ati.com/products/workstat...lZ1/index.html

[icpgr8milenko]

Any idea if anybody's done the mod successfully yet? Or are they still trying to get ahold of some X1 bios?

[Retiarius]

Just to make it clear:

Z1 is like radeon9500 (4 pipelines disabled, 128bit)
M1 is like radeon 9700 (8 pipelines, 256 bit, 128mb)
X1 is like radeon 9700 but with 256mb

[Dwarden]

I think most of us want M1 bios and ability to use M1 drivers ...

I'm sure it will be interesant test ... btw. thanks for explaining that M1 / X1 difference i wasn't sure if it's only memory size or more ...

[ppiippo]

Okay, getting an workstation graphicscard sounded 'cool', thought i might try it, even though i don't think i will have much use for it... . Just for the sport.

Anyway, before making the hw-mod, i tried installing the drivers just to see if it would work. Before that, i realized that i would need to change the ASIC ID to 4147 for FireGL Z1 (coz i have Sapphire 9500 nonpro 128Mb). Onto modding the bios. Got it changed, but drivers didn't find my card. So i modded the SubID and DeviceIDs also. Now thay installed, but i faced the same problem that i had with R9000: on next boot, all i got was VGA mode. The drivers didn't start ok.

Next i hooked my soldering iron and moved the resistor. Put the card back and booted Win2k: vga, but windows found my card again. And @next boot i was greeted with nice 32-bit color 800x600 mode.

I tried GlQuake and Doom3, GlQuake ran ok, but slower than original R9500, Doom3 wouln't start fullscreen, just made a 'box' on my upper left corner of my screen and ran there. Quake 3 started ok, i went to System and looked for the driver info and it reported FireGL Z1 etc. Setting res to 1600x1200 got me only blank screen... with 1024x768 i can paly it ok, but it's not running as fast as originally.
I don't really have much software to test this thing, coz i don't think that benching games is the right way... i'm downloading Spec Viewperf, but it takes ~4 hours at least.

But couple screenshots:

http://www.ratol.fi/~ppiippo/Mods/firegl.jpg
http://www.ratol.fi/~ppiippo/Mods/FGL_Q3.JPG

[ppiippo]

Well, it seems that if i want to go back to regular R9500, i'm gonna do more that just flash the bios. The resistor must also be in different position :/. Hmm, i'll solder a jumper on it tomorrow

[Dwarden]

So you
- changed resistor position
- flashed FireGL Z1 bios

right?

But, did you used Z1 drivers or normal Cat 3.0 ?

Z1 drivers can be found there
http://www.ati.com/support/products/...z1drivers.html

remember they bit older as our "normal newest" ones ...

[ppiippo]

Well, i first flashed, but that alone didn't work. Then i did the resistor mod, and now it seems to be working.

I used the FireGL Z1-drivers from Ati site. I cannot install Cat3 anymore, even if i flash the original bios. I have to return the resistor to it's original state.

[ppiippo]

Ok, i ran Spec Viewperf 7.0. First run was when the card was operating as Fire GL Z1, which is 128Mb, 4-pipe version. Clocks were 276/270.


Run All Summary

3dsmax-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 10.70

drv-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 45.64

dx-07 Weighted Geometric Mean = 68.80

light-05 Weighted Geometric Mean = 16.28

proe-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 12.10

ugs-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 16.81


For second test i edited the ID's on the bios to match Fire GL Z1 Pro, 128Mb, 8-pipe version. Seems to be working ok also.
I'll run it again, when i revert to original 9500, and post it for comparison.


Run All Summary

3dsmax-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 12.82

drv-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 56.14

dx-07 Weighted Geometric Mean = 81.24

light-05 Weighted Geometric Mean = 18.22

proe-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 13.91

ugs-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 21.95

[ppiippo]

Ok, Spec with default R9500 (same clocks, 4-pipes, newest Omega-drivers):

Run All Summary

3dsmax-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 8.206

drv-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 27.72

dx-07 Weighted Geometric Mean = 45.50

light-05 Weighted Geometric Mean = 11.84

proe-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 9.285

ugs-01 Weighted Geometric Mean = 10.83

[Mikeonhike]

>ppiippo

where did you get bios for FireGL Z1?
or it`s just ID modification?

can you send it to my mail
here!


Thanks!

[ppiippo]

The bioses i've used are simply ID modded Sapphire R9500 128Mb bioses.

And cause i propably wont need FireGl's rendering power, i thought that i mod it to original R9500. But it's good to have a possibility to use the 'hidden features', so enter the 'jumper on R9500' (sorry about the bad pic quality):

http://www.ratol.fi/~ppiippo/Mods/FireGL_jumpperi1.jpg
http://www.ratol.fi/~ppiippo/Mods/FireGL_jumpperi2.jpg

Constructive comments welcome... .

[Mikeonhike]

OK, I would be fine with FIRE GL Z1 (4 pipelines)


But something I wonder about your Z1 pro (8 pipelines)

-you did hw mod for 9700 and firegl
-and you used changed ID bios from 9500 bios (not original 9700 bios)
-and you installed FIRE GL Z1 drivers

If so then you have 8 pipelines and only 128bit memory interface? Is this possible ?

And you get no artifacts in your picture (there is a lot bad mods where picture is bad-with original 9700 bios)

If this is working this is great news

[ppiippo]

My card is 128Mb Sapphire with 9700 PCB and it has 256-bit mem interface.

But my card doesn't function properly in 9700-mode, cause i have those artifacts... .

I think that even if you have 128-bit mem interface, doing the 9700-mod and FireGL mod would give a good increase in speed, but the 128-bit interface would not allow speed on par with original FireGL Z1 Pro.

About those 9500 and 9700 bioses: i think that there are only 9700 bioses. The 9500 bioses are only with different ID's and maybe slight modifications for memsettings. My 9500 bios works a 9700 bios after i change the ID's and the speed is identical to real 9700 bios.

Oh and one thing: with FireGL mod and original 9500 bios, i can't use normal Catalyst drivers, they simply wont start. But when i flash 9700-bios, and FireGl mod is on, they work ok. So 9700-users who make the FireGl mod should be able to use the card normally (when original bios is flashed)! It seems that 9500's ID and FireGL mod make the drivers think the card isn't ok.

[Mikeonhike]

>ppiippo

both bios are equal (those you send me)

[ppiippo]

Originally posted by Mikeonhike
>ppiippo

both bios are equal (those you send me)

Hmm, what card you have? If 9500, have you done the 9700-mod? If not, the card will be with FireGL Z1's ASIC ID even if you flash the Pro-bios.

And they wont work if you haven't done the FireGl mod...

Those bioses differ only in line 70h , 130h and 180h.

[Mikeonhike]

Sorry I did`t know that it can not be seen in radedit that difference

>Those bioses differ only in line 70h , 130h and 180h


Then your Z1pro bios does turn 8 pipelines?And you get no artifacts? What happens with 128/256 memory interface?

If I`m correct:I`m gonna have 8pipelines,128bit memory int., and I`m able to install FIREGL Z1 drivers.

then this is FIREGL XXX on 9500pro128mb


I have sapphire 9500 non-pro 128mb with hynx 3.6,hw mode with 9700 bios gives me artifacts

Did you try hw mod 9700 and 9700 bios=did you have any artifacts=yes you did
so we can come to conclusion that those pipelines are OK
but there is problem with 128/256 change and 9700 bios (so maybe rivatuner is gonna WORK!)

[ppiippo]

If the 9700 hwmod has been made, yes, the Z1Pro bios does enable 8-pipelines. And 9700-users only have to do the FireGL mod, of course.

I get artifacts, when i run in Z1Pro mode. Just like in 9700 mode. The very same artifacts. So it's propably something in the chip .

> If I`m correct:I`m gonna have 8pipelines,128bit memory
> int., and I`m able to install FIREGL Z1 drivers.

> then this is FIREGL XXX on 9500pro128mb

Yep, should go like that.

There was an article about how much does 256bit bus help the R9500 128Mb nonpro. The difference between a 64Mb 128bit and 128Mb 256bit cards were noticeable. So the the 128Mb R9500, which should have the 256bit bus is running at 256bit bus all the time.

[Dwarden]

Just was curiouse
there is Software way to enable additional 4 pipelines ... so no need to make hw resistor positions
theoretically ... there can be software way for FireGL ...so no need change resistors too

just thought ...

btw anyone here with R9700p who want try M1?

also who have FireGL Z1, M1, X1 bioses can You save them and send to [email protected] ?

[coupe333]

I have an 9700p and i am positive to try..
But i need instructions , i have never played with card bios...

[Dwarden]

I talked with w1zzard and he will look into software modification like he does for additional 4 pipelines ...
sadly he have no time yet....so we need wait 2 approx weeks ..

Anyway who want now try modify resistors at R9700pro into FireGL M1 must do this:

1) change position of resistor 4-5 to 5-6
2) flash (or emulate) bios from FireGl M1
3) install FireGL drivers (optimized for CAD / 3D aplications)

these drivers are "bit" older as official CAT 3.0a so some bugs are possible ...

i hope someone have that M1 bios

for these who have no interest to damage card or break warranty i suggest wait for SW patch ...

[ppiippo]

Dwarden : what is this M1 chip?

From the fireglx1z1-win2kxp-1021 driverpackage i can only find references to Z1, Z1 Pro, X1 and X1 Pro.

Actually, there is:

-Z1 (with 4 pipes)
-X1 (8 pipes?)
-Z1 Pro (4 pipes)
-Z1 Pro (another, 8 pipes?)
-and X1 Pro, which has 256Mb of mem (all the others have only 128Mb)

If someone has that M1-bios (or Z1 or X1), i can test and see, if it makes any difference for the benches i ran.

[node]

pppiippo, as far as I know the diffrence between a regular and a FireGL card (assuming they aren't overclocked have the same pipelines etc) are in fact the drivers.

The drivers are optimized for 3D applications instead of games. I would think that there is some configuration in the FireGL driver that lets you confiruge it to be optimized for games aswell, but don't count on it. (That's why they most likley dind't have any benchmarks of games.)

So doing this mod is only interesting for 3D artists who want a cheaper card. If you require the 256 MB version of the X1 Pro (maybe it's even higher clocked then the 9700Pro) you obviously must buy the FireGL card. Thank god that there is only one driver for the 9xxxx cards in linux made by ati.

Also I don't think they sell the X1's yet. I dind't find them on pricewatch.com nor on the [email protected] part of the ati.com site. So that would make a nother reason to do the mod then

[Dwarden]

Originally posted by ppiippo
Dwarden : what is this M1 chip?

From the fireglx1z1-win2kxp-1021 driverpackage i can only find references to Z1, Z1 Pro, X1 and X1 Pro.

Actually, there is:

-Z1 (with 4 pipes)
-X1 (8 pipes?)
-Z1 Pro (4 pipes)
-Z1 Pro (another, 8 pipes?)
-and X1 Pro, which has 256Mb of mem (all the others have only 128Mb)

If someone has that M1-bios (or Z1 or X1), i can test and see, if it makes any difference for the benches i ran.

it's loong time ago when ATI used M1 in listings:
Z1 is based upon R9500 specs
M1 is based upon R9700 pro specs 128MB
X1 is based upon R9700 pro specs 256MB

i guess ATI renamed M1 to X1 and changed 256MB variant name to X1 pro ...

[Gaston]

Forget about this post, the magic Unwinder has already made the world a better place ...
http://www.guru3d.com/forum/Ooops I did it again !!!

I have tried a few things to get the driver hack working.
I tried to replicate the patch script Unwinder is using for the SoftR9700 script in the RivaTuner (Lots of credits goes to him).

I took a Hex editor and guess what I found exactly same sequence in the ati2mtgl.sys file which corresponds to the ati2mtag.sys file for the Radeon drivers.

I made a new script changed the offset to the one I found in the Hex-Editor.

I replaced the std .sys with the new one, and gues what! The drivers loaded without complaining but I got a code 10 error after rebooting.

I reinstalled the driver to a couple of different versions Pro and non Pro X1. I also tried both primary and secondary only adapter, no Change.

Any ideas?

The new patch script is done for version 1024 of the X1-driver. The driver downloaded from Dell, they seem to have the newest version.

[Common]
SrcFile	= ati2mtgl.sys
BakFile = ati2mtgl.sys.old
HlpFile	= SoftR9700.rth
MakeCRC = 1
Packed	= 1

Src0	= 83 F8 40 0F 85 00 00 00 00 66 81 BD 00 FF FF FF 02 10 0F 85 00 00 00 00
SCM0	= FF FF FF FF FF 00 00 00 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 00 00 00
Dst0	= 66 81 A5 02 FF FF FF FE FE 66 81 8D 02 FF FF FF 00 0E 90 90 90 90 90 90

[Certified0]
Version	= 6.13.10.1024
Size	= 538112

Src0	= 83 f8 40 0f 85 d8 00 00 00 66 81 bd 00 ff ff ff 02 10 0f 85 c9 00 00 00 
Dst0	= 66 81 a5 02 ff ff ff fe fe 66 81 8d 02 ff ff ff 00 0e 90 90 90 90 90 90 
Off0	= 0006ba82

BTW.
I agree on this

i guess ATI renamed M1 to X1 and changed 256MB variant name to X1 pro ...

[coupe333]

Heare some benchmarks with MAX 5 and some hacked bios !

X-BIT

[Gaston]

Forget about this post magic Unwinder did it ...
http://www.guru3d.com/forum/Ooops I did it again !!!


Hmm,

It would be really interesting to try the modded bios with my version of the RivaTuner script (see above).
This would of course be without any hardware modification.

If anyone does this please post

[Astennu]

I know that the radeon 9700 is faster in games but can someone give me som fps ? and can you test Quake at FSAA and AF maybe the FireGL X1 is faster at FSAA and AF and try to get de core clocks of the 9700 pro matched to the clock speeds of the FireGL X1 cause the rdaeon 9700 pro runs @ 310-325 and the FireGL X1 runs @ 282-270.

[ppiippo]

node: yep, it seems that there actually is not much differences in hw level of the R300 series (excluding some PCB stuff), it's only the software which control everything. And as it has been seen, no software can trick true enthustiatics... .

Gaston: do you mean that try it without hw mod, but with modded bios? I'll see if i have time. I did dl those 1024-drivers, have't benched them yet. Also, voltmodded my card a bit and improved cooling, so i'm finding the highest speeds... =). Memvmod only to be done.

Astennu: i haven't really benched anything, only GlQuake and ran Quake 3 for test.

But GlQuake timedemo demo 1 gets a 100FPS hit (1024x768x32). This is with 4-pipe version bios, Z1.
The Z1 Pro, 8-pipe version the score gets 150 FPS hit with same settings.
Like 286->180 and 476->326.
But 3D Mark 2001SE gets even better score than newest Omega-drivers.
Other few games have failed, seems that they don't understand FirGL drivers.