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AIW / Multimedia Discussion and Technical Support Discussion and support forum for all of the All-In-Wonder Radeon cards, the TV-Wonder, Remote Wonder I and II, the new HDTV Wonder, and basically anything with VIVO support.

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Old Apr 12, 2004, 08:29 PM   #1
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onyxcorp
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Default ShadowStream 2.0 UPDATED WITH DEINTERLACE (Viewing/Recording/Broadcasting)

ShadowStream v.2.0
www.phazonomicron.com
Windows XP w/DirectX 9.0 only

Standard Version (recommended for TV Wonder Pro)
ShadowStream 2.0 Standard (24KB)
ShadowStreamDI 2.0 Standard w/De-Interlacing (37KB)

All-in-Wonder Edition
ShadowStream 2.0 All-in-Wonder (24KB)
ShadowStreamDI 2.0 All-in-Wonder De-Interlacing (37KB) - TEST... Please reply if you have any issues.

Optional
Windows Media Encoder 9 (required for broadcasting NOTE: IF YOU HAVE MMC INSTALLED, YOU DO NOT NEED THIS.)
Microsoft Runtime Library If you need msvcr70.dll, drop this in windows\system32

What is ShadowStream?
ShadowStream brings ease of use and a streamlined interface to users of capture cards from ATi. ShadowStream lets you watch tv, play console games, record the stream and broadcast via the internet, in real-time or deferred, with any video/audio codecs installed on your computer to a .avi file.

ShadowStream has been tested on the ATi TV Wonder Pro, the ATi All in Wonder Radeon 9800, and the Asus TV tuner. It may or may not work on other tv tuner cards.

What is de-interlacing?
Ultimate definition: http://www.100fps.com/
Quick definition: it gets rid of those annoying lines you see on games and TV shows.

Where would I use de-interlacing?
Probably for anything you want. If you play console games, like GameCube, enabling de-interlacing gives 60fps games that 60fps look and even makes 30fps games smoother. Compare F-Zero GX in De-Interlaced mode (High Quality) to Normal Mode. It's a massive difference.

How does ShadowStream de-interlace?
ShadowStream uses your graphic card, which means you should see barely any CPU usage. On my configuration (Radeon 9700 Pro), I get 3-5% CPU isage. Users with Nvidia graphic cards may see upwards of 100%.

But DScaler de-interlaces. Why would I use ShadowStream?
Several reasons. First of all, ShadowStream uses full resolution (720x480), while DScaler uses much lower. This basically means ShadowStream produces a sharper, more vibrant image. Screenshots do not do it justice. Another reason, ShadowStream uses your GPU. On my 3GHz, DScaler uses 50-70% CPU. ShadowStream uses 3-5%. Another reason: it just looks better.

ShadowStream de-interlacing looks weird or is too slow on my Nvidia graphic card...
ShadowStream works BEST on an ATi card. We're using standard DX here, yet the Nvidia cards cause us the most issues.

What's new in 2.0?
ShadowStream 2.0 is a major update from the original release. 2.0 brings numerous bug fixes, smaller file size, and more importantly: broadcasting. Now with ShadowStream 2.0, you can stream your video and audio to anyone you want. With a simple click of a button, you can become a mini internet broadcaster.

Other features include:[list=1][*]Optional De-interlacing. Recommended for those with an AIW or TV Wonder Pro users with ATi Radeon class accelerators. Accelerators from NVidia and others may or may not perform adequately.[*]More efficient code. The extracted EXE weighs in at only 56KB. Compared to MMC, this is a vast difference.[*]Popup Balloons. If your Windows XP is set to display balloon messages, ShadowStream will use them to inform you it's encoding, it's broadcasting, who's connecting, the time you've been encoding, and more.[*]Quick Bring-To-Front. If you happen to have crowded your display with other windows, and want to quickly bring ShadowStream to the front, just middle click the icon in the tray.[/list=1]How do I install ShadowStream?
You don't. To keep the download size portable, there is no installer. All you need to do is create a folder wherever you want (even Program Files), extract the EXE, and run! Simple as that.

When I hit 'B' to broadcast, ShadowStream crashes or nothing displays.
You must install Windows Media Encoder 9.

How can I find my IP address?
Just go to http://www.whatismyip.com/. Your IP will be displayed there.

How do I get my friend to watch my broadcast?
The broadcast is only viewable in Windows Media Player 6.4 and up. So if your IP is 66.323.49.1, tell your friend to go to FILE > OPEN URL in Windows Media Player, and type in this line: http://66.323.49.1:9999. ShadowStream 2 uses port 9999, so make sure your router/firewall won't interfere with it.

What resolution does it broadcast in?
It will use whatever resolution you have set in ShadowStream. I wouldn't go higher than 320x240. ShadowStream automatically detects your upload and adjust the codec bitrate accordingly.

I can't seem to encode with WMVideo Encoder DMO.
Any codecs that have DMO can not be used in ShadowStream. If you wish to make a Windows Media Video file, use Uncompressed for both Video and Audio in the ShadowStream Options ('O').

ShadowStream doesn't work on my [INSERT-NON-ATI-CARD-HERE]. What can I do?
Buy an All in Wonder or TV Wonder Pro. Although, we do have reports of it working on various other capture cards.

High-Quality mode looks weird during fast motion.
That's because ShadowStream doesn't do de-interlacing at that resolution. Switch to Normal mode. The difference should be negligable anyway.

My output AVI is choppy. What's up?
Many things can contribute to poor captures. Defrag your hard drive, and make sure no other resource intensive apps are running.

How about some screenshots?
Alrighty.


When you first open ShadowStream 2, this is what you'll see. Well, not 1080 Avalanche. Whatever your default device is displaying, it'll show here.


Hit 'O' on your keyboard (or Middle Click Mouse over the window) for the Options. Here you will find codecs for video and audio, resolution, processing mode (Real-Time encodes on the fly, Encode when Complete is self-explanatory. Under Select Video Tuner Capture Device, you will find all the devices installed. You should only select a tuner device here (such as a TV Wonder Pro), although other devices may work... but don't count on it. High-Quality is selectable here, or you can do it while in Viewing mode with 'Q'. And you can change your screenshot settings, and the location for captured files.


This is what you'll see when you do real-time encoding. An overlay that says ENCODING will appear for a few seconds, while the Bubble gives you statistics.


This is what you'll see when you do Encode After. ShadowStream is smart enough to encode the video and let you continue watching or playing.


When you broadcast, this is what you'll first see. 0 Clients Connected.


When someone connects to you, you'll see their IP and the number of clients.


Here's a shot of Widescreen mode, which is activated by hitting 'SPACEBAR'. How do you get back to normal 4:3? Hit 'SPACEBAR'.


If you plan on taking screenshots, I suggest using High Quality Mode, activated by hitting 'Q'. To go back to normal mode, hit 'Q' again.

Does ShadowStream take good screenshots?
Yes, it does. Here's a few samples:

http://www.chasingradium.com/images/...m2/screen1.jpg

http://www.chasingradium.com/images/...m2/screen2.jpg

http://www.chasingradium.com/images/...m2/screen3.jpg

How about movies?
Movies are great as well. It really just depends on your bitrate settings, and which codec you use. Here's a quick video I made of 1080 Avalanche.

Why should I use ShadowStream over MMC?
Depends on what you like. If you want TV scheduling, you'll need MMC for that. Otherwise, ShadowStream does a better job. It's smaller, less cumbersome (it has no interface), starts up as fast as Notepad, and much more. But you can be the judge of that.

I want to see ShadowStream's features before I download it.
Fine. I made a quick video tour of ShadowStream. Click here to view the tour.

How do I do...
Read the readme.

Why is there a standard version and an All in Wonder version?
The All in Wonder cards use different technology compared to the TV Wonder Pro cards. It required a separate codebase to work properly.

Why is ShadowStream so small? Is this a virus/botnet?
We'll be adding that in Version 3.0. Sorry, you'll have to wait.

Who made ShadowStream?
Shadow, of course.

Last edited by onyxcorp : Apr 17, 2004 at 02:14 PM.
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Old Apr 12, 2004, 08:56 PM   #2
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Much appreciated, works well so far with tv tuner and I will test it out a bit more.
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Old Apr 13, 2004, 01:01 AM   #3
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Old Apr 13, 2004, 02:49 AM   #4
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Cool, this works perfectly for the Dvico Fusion II on the analog side.
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Old Apr 13, 2004, 04:54 PM   #5
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Thanks for the comments. I was hoping more people would find this topic. Is there a more popular forum than Rage3D for this kind of app?
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Old Apr 13, 2004, 08:14 PM   #6
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Maybe DVDRhelp.com's capture forum (link), or TV-Cards.com forums (link).
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Old Apr 13, 2004, 10:01 PM   #7
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Much appreciated. I'm using the 1st Shadowstream right now. Keep up the good work
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Old Apr 14, 2004, 08:54 AM   #8
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works perfect in my AIW8500dv

thanks

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Old Apr 14, 2004, 10:05 AM   #9
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This is the best FORUM at Rage3d for this app .

Made sticky for a while and a link will be addded into the 'IMPORTANT ...' sticky
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Old Apr 14, 2004, 12:43 PM   #10
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Awesome, thanks for stickying this We're trying to add some new features right now, like de-interlacing (kinda like dscaler).
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Old Apr 14, 2004, 01:58 PM   #11
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This software is begging me to buy a TV Wonder Pro.
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Old Apr 14, 2004, 03:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by onyxcorp
We're trying to add some new features right now, like de-interlacing (kinda like dscaler).
Great, maybe add remembering the size of the window (or position) when you close.
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Old Apr 14, 2004, 03:08 PM   #13
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Actually, let me take back what I said about de-interlacing.

It's NOT like dscalers. Dscaler uses an archaic form of de-interlacing through Video for Windows, a format established for Windows 3.1. That's why most people can't use dscaler, since it requirse a powerful computer.

What the next ShadowStream is doing will be de-interlacing through DirectShow. I just tested it on a 650MHz Athlon, and it runs exceptionally well. No stuttering, insanely smooth (like dscaler). Basically, it's Real-Time De-Interlacing. And you don't need a 3GHz for it to run smoothly.

So hopefully it'll be available very soon. Just doing optimizations, testing, etc. But so far, in my opinion, this de-interlacing solution is better than dscalers. It's real-time, and I'm guessing everyone will be able to use it, no matter the CPU/GPU.
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Old Apr 14, 2004, 03:12 PM   #14
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Ehhh.. wow. That's pretty damn incredible. So when I can I buy this?
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Old Apr 14, 2004, 05:08 PM   #15
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One bug still not fixed, it remembers, but does not honor, the always-on-top setting. (ie, every time it starts up, its always on top, regardless of the setting it is on)
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Old Apr 14, 2004, 05:27 PM   #16
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Thumbs up

Wow, very nice little program! It's so light, it's the Firefox of TV apps.

A few suggestions :

-Even on normal quality movement feels choppy and interlaced. ATI TV doesn't do that. From what I gather from this thread I think the upcoming de-interlacing should fix that.
-An option to resize while keeping aspect ratio.
-Snap to screen edges/taskbar would be nice.
-Turn on line-in at startup and mute on shutdown.
-Built-in mute and volume control for line-in (kind of like the * key for MMC)

Aside from that, nice job! It's blazing fast compared to ATI's TV program. Can't wait for future releases.
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Old Apr 14, 2004, 06:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Trembrol
movement feels choppy and interlaced. ATI TV doesn't do that. From what I gather from this thread I think the upcoming de-interlacing should fix that.
I've noticed that too. I'm watching a hockey game on it right now, and when there's fast movement it seems like little horizontal lines, or sometimes jaggies, appear on the contour of whatever is moving. Like Trembrol said though, seems like you guys are already aware of that.

One thing I really appreciate about the program is that I can drag it to my second monitor (AIW 9600 PRO, dual CRT setup) and it works perfectly. No slowdowns, as if it was running on my primary display. That feature seems to be lacking from a lot of the other TV apps floating around.

Once again, keep up the good work.

Oh, one more thing I like about this release. With v1.0, whenever I restarted the app it would always default to my primary monitor. Now it defaults to the monitor it was last on, which is exactly what I need. Thanks again.

edit: 2 more things I liked

- when I click the "Show Desktop" button, it doesn't minimize Shadowstream if "Always on top" is selected
- also, when I start Shadowstream it doesn't change my desktop's resolution any more (used to change it to 640 x 480)
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Last edited by Trekster : Apr 14, 2004 at 06:55 PM.
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Old Apr 14, 2004, 06:39 PM   #18
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An AIW suggestion for the developer in order to solve the deinterlacing problems: there is a directshow filter called "ATI Video Format Converter" that could be inserted in the filtergraph before the video renderer, that would automatically provide deinterlacing support.
(I was able to test this in the graph editor)
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Old Apr 14, 2004, 06:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by onyxcorp
Actually, let me take back what I said about de-interlacing.

It's NOT like dscalers. Dscaler uses an archaic form of de-interlacing through Video for Windows, a format established for Windows 3.1. That's why most people can't use dscaler, since it requirse a powerful computer.

What the next ShadowStream is doing will be de-interlacing through DirectShow. I just tested it on a 650MHz Athlon, and it runs exceptionally well. No stuttering, insanely smooth (like dscaler). Basically, it's Real-Time De-Interlacing. And you don't need a 3GHz for it to run smoothly.

So hopefully it'll be available very soon. Just doing optimizations, testing, etc. But so far, in my opinion, this de-interlacing solution is better than dscalers. It's real-time, and I'm guessing everyone will be able to use it, no matter the CPU/GPU.
The "upcoming" DScaler 5.0 is supposed to be using DirectShow as well, but I'm not sure (and right now, I don't think anyone is) when that release will be (if ever).

Shadowstream is great. I love it. Is there any plans for a remote wonder plugin?
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Old Apr 14, 2004, 06:50 PM   #20
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If you're seeing all those interlaced lines and what not, run it in "Normal Mode". Hit Q.
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Old Apr 15, 2004, 05:01 PM   #21
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I have a bit of a question here, but I'm not sure whether it's related to my computer, or to Shadowstream. Whenever I record anything off TV with Shadowstream, and open the recorded file, the audio is never in sync with the video. I don't get the same problem with MMC though.

Just wondering whether you had any suggestions on how to fix that problem.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 12:33 PM   #22
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*removed*

Last edited by onyxcorp : Apr 16, 2004 at 05:04 PM.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 01:00 PM   #23
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Check your above post , I think you may have the pictures labeled wrong .
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 01:30 PM   #24
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Hmmm, they look right to me. What's wrong?
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 02:09 PM   #25
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To me the DSCALER pics look better as it is labelled .


The blurry /patchy /jaggy pics are labelled shadowstream !!
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 05:04 PM   #26
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Hm... Everyone I've asked say ShadowStream looks nicer, but I'm going to remove the pics. It'll be easier to judge in motion.
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Old Apr 17, 2004, 12:36 PM   #27
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I've updated the top post with a link to the De-Interlace version and some info on it. Check it out and let me know how it is!
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Old Apr 18, 2004, 02:53 AM   #28
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I'm reporting back with some issues:

I tried the DIW one on my XP2400+/ECS K7VTA3/AIW8500DV/512Mb PC2700 running XP Pro SP1. It refuses to show a tv screen. The tray icon is present but other than that I only get sound. No picture. Tried to kill it with Task Manager without luck. Only a reboot will take it away.

The shadowstream AIW and the older shadowstream AIW both work fine though..

Last edited by vwtoys : Apr 18, 2004 at 02:57 AM.
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Old Apr 18, 2004, 12:19 PM   #29
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On a tv wonder pro, it looks very good. But when you resize the window screeen by dragging the edges, the picture gets funny... like some weird framerate/ghosting thing going on. Change the picture quality from HQ to normal and back to HQ fixes it, and it doesn't happen on normal picture mode.

The picture improved more on my Fusion II board, because the interlacing was much more pronounced on the older version on this tv card. The framerate/ghosting happens here too, by changing window size, and also by going full screen and back. Again, this is in HQ mode. In normal mode, this doesn't happen but in normal mode, the interlacing is apparent on anything that moves quickly.
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Old Apr 18, 2004, 12:42 PM   #30
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Hi everyone. There's a new AIW De-Interlace version up. This one SHOULD work now. It's working on others we've tested on.
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