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Old Apr 21, 2012, 05:32 PM   #31
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Elysian
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Letting Apple rape you on subsidy payments isn't our problem though.. Which is also why carriers seem to be eager to get a 3rd platform going. Verizon reported growths in profit because of a decline in iPhone sales.

As for subsidizing, When can we expect to stop paying a fee for text messaging? Sprint integrated Google voice and LTE treats texts as data.
You think Apple is the only one that rapes on subsidizing? All phones carry roughly the same absurd pricetag.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 05:55 PM   #32
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You think Apple is the only one that rapes on subsidizing? All phones carry roughly the same absurd pricetag.
No, they don't. Verizon makes more money by selling everything but the iPhone. Windows Phone pulling ahead of the iPhone as predicted would be glorious for them (and probably everyone else that sells the iPhone).

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-574...windows-phone/

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Old Apr 21, 2012, 06:32 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Canesfan2020 View Post
Letting Apple rape you on subsidy payments isn't our problem though.. Which is also why carriers seem to be eager to get a 3rd platform going. Verizon reported growths in profit because of a decline in iPhone sales.

As for subsidizing, When can we expect to stop paying a fee for text messaging? Sprint integrated Google voice and LTE treats texts as data.
Hmmm... I was disagreeing with the comment that the money received up front "means nothing to them" as it means quite a bit. We're not, as you say, being raped by Apple in accepting a subsidy outlay up front and recouping costs over the lifetime of the contract. But the more that is put up by the carriers to meet a price point the customer's are wanting, is more that needs to be baked in to the monthly MRC and recaptured during the life of the service with the carrier.

As for the messaging costs, are you talking about Messaging costs on Sprint for SMS? Text messaging itself isn't absolutely free, but it does have a lower network operations overhead when compared to voice and data. Which is why you typically find SMS or "Messaging" offered in an Unlimited fashion, bundled in free with most of our packaging & pricing options.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 06:50 PM   #34
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Hmmm... I was disagreeing with the comment that the money received up front "means nothing to them" as it means quite a bit. We're not, as you say, being raped by Apple in accepting a subsidy outlay up front and recouping costs over the lifetime of the contract. But the more that is put up by the carriers to meet a price point the customer's are wanting, is more that needs to be baked in to the monthly MRC and recaptured during the life of the service with the carrier.

As for the messaging costs, are you talking about Messaging costs on Sprint for SMS? Text messaging itself isn't absolutely free, but it does have a lower network operations overhead when compared to voice and data. Which is why you typically find SMS or "Messaging" offered in an Unlimited fashion, bundled in free with most of our packaging & pricing options.
I was actually reading an article on this topic not long ago. I would actually like to hear your insight on the matter.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/...ying-carriers/
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 07:07 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Canesfan2020 View Post
I was actually reading an article on this topic not long ago. I would actually like to hear your insight on the matter.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/...ying-carriers/
I think most carriers would be somewhat alright with moving to a pricing model where devices are purchased up front and entirely by the consumer, with the carrier's offering data plans & connectivity services. Don't get me wrong, there is money to be made on selling phones, but it's more of a cost shouldered as a requirement to bring new customers into the carrier's network and could be moved to 3rd party retailers to shoulder costs associated with retail sales.

This is a trend that's easier to find alive and well overseas but not in the U.S. so much. The problem is one of the big 4 carriers domestically would have make the move first and they'd effectively be shooting themselves in the foot in trying to compete with their peers.

Picture an iPhone 5 launch where going to Verizon or AT&T would mean $200 up front and $99 per month. But going to Sprint for instance would be $650 up front and $79 per month. Basically by subsidizing the costs into the MRC you're sort of "financing" the phone, something very familiar to almost every retailer in the U.S. whether they offer, cars, houses or even TVs.

Right now it just makes sense to subsidize the costs up front to get the consumers on board with the big expensive phones and then drive some return on revenues from the MRCs. Just look at what ARPU has done over the past 2 years for carriers with and without the iPhone.


Edit:
I meant to add that I personally would like to see a decoupled sales and service model where phones could be purchased outside of a service contract. This would tend to require that the domestic carriers move to a device & network model that enabled services to be activated or canceled via something like a SIM card. This would more directly reward or punish a carrier's performance in things like coverage, customer service or pricing without having customers being held hostage by the phone they bought 12 months ago. Plus customers would then be more invested in their device purchases, rather than getting a "free" phone up front, breaking it 6 months in and expecting the carrier to hand over a new one. It might have been free to the customer, cost the carrier $300 and because there was no up front investment by the user, their mindset is that there's no real cost to the carrier either and they should be able to hand these things out like party favors.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 07:16 PM   #36
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We may have strayed somewhat from our conversation about the Nokia...

Want me to move our conversation here into a new thread to discuss carrier subsidies and pricing models?
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 07:23 PM   #37
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I think most carriers would be somewhat alright with moving to a pricing model where devices are purchased up front and entirely by the consumer, with the carrier's offering data plans & connectivity services. Don't get me wrong, there is money to be made on selling phones, but it's more of a cost shouldered as a requirement to bring new customers into the carrier's network and could be moved to 3rd party retailers to shoulder costs associated with retail sales.

This is a trend that's easier to find alive and well overseas but not in the U.S. so much. The problem is one of the big 4 carriers domestically would have make the move first and they'd effectively be shooting themselves in the foot in trying to compete with their peers.

Picture an iPhone 5 launch where going to Verizon or AT&T would mean $200 up front and $99 per month. But going to Sprint for instance would be $650 up front and $79 per month. Basically by subsidizing the costs into the MRC you're sort of "financing" the phone, something very familiar to almost every retailer in the U.S. whether they offer, cars, houses or even TVs.

Right now it just makes sense to subsidize the costs up front to get the consumers on board with the big expensive phones and then drive some return on revenues from the MRCs. Just look at what ARPU has done over the past 2 years for carriers with and without the iPhone.
What is the difference between say, the subsidy payments to Apple vs The money lost to MSFT over the Arrive?
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 07:33 PM   #38
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It has already been rolled out, for my wife's Nokia, at least.

Regarding the "I don't trust windows comment" above, just try it if you get the chance. It's really quite great.
Is your wife happy with it, Is she technical minded or like my wife can get around the computer but likes to keep it simple.

She has one of the crappiest ever made. A sliding keyboard type piece o useless door stopper.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 07:26 AM   #39
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Is your wife happy with it, Is she technical minded or like my wife can get around the computer but likes to keep it simple.

She has one of the crappiest ever made. A sliding keyboard type piece o useless door stopper.
She's exactly how you described your wife, she can get around a computer, but does not enjoy fiddling with things, she wants and expects things to work, and to be easy to use.
She's very happy with it, up to the point I see her fiddling with it just for the sake of fiddling with it, which is something she never did before with gadgets.
She's only bothered by minor usability issues, like not having a battery percentage meter, or not having the alarm time show in the lockscreen. On my side, I don't like it doesn't have internet tethering enabled, and that the camera is terribly inconsistent. Example: indoors lighting, at the dinner table, we had a very nice looking cake at dessert, which she wanted to take a picture of. First shot: flawless. Second shot, same position, same lighting, same everything: crappy and blurry.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 09:05 AM   #40
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I was in Target yesterday and I was messing around with the Galaxy Note and Lumia 900 and man, they both feel amazing. The Lumia's screen is surprisingly good considering the marketing about resolution. My iPhone 4 with it's piddly 3.5" screen just doesn't cut it anymore. Here's to hoping the market moves to 4"+ as a standard so we can save our vision

Is there any word about the battery percentage meter coming in a future update or patch? I figure that MS might wait till 8 before dropping the new OS updates.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 11:43 AM   #41
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She's exactly how you described your wife, she can get around a computer, but does not enjoy fiddling with things, she wants and expects things to work, and to be easy to use.
She's very happy with it, up to the point I see her fiddling with it just for the sake of fiddling with it, which is something she never did before with gadgets.
She's only bothered by minor usability issues, like not having a battery percentage meter, or not having the alarm time show in the lockscreen. On my side, I don't like it doesn't have internet tethering enabled, and that the camera is terribly inconsistent. Example: indoors lighting, at the dinner table, we had a very nice looking cake at dessert, which she wanted to take a picture of. First shot: flawless. Second shot, same position, same lighting, same everything: crappy and blurry.
possible a solution to her crappy mess of a phone. Thank you
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:40 PM   #42
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I was in Target yesterday and I was messing around with the Galaxy Note and Lumia 900 and man, they both feel amazing. The Lumia's screen is surprisingly good considering the marketing about resolution. My iPhone 4 with it's piddly 3.5" screen just doesn't cut it anymore. Here's to hoping the market moves to 4"+ as a standard so we can save our vision

Is there any word about the battery percentage meter coming in a future update or patch? I figure that MS might wait till 8 before dropping the new OS updates.
You can look at the percentage right now in the settings menu. I wouldn't hold my breath for a display coming in the drop down but its possible I suppose.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 03:24 PM   #43
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You can look at the percentage right now in the settings menu. I wouldn't hold my breath for a display coming in the drop down but its possible I suppose.
Well theres the battery meter on the top when you tap on the top portion of the screen.

Then theres the battery percentage indicator buried deep in the settings somewhere (which is nowhere near accuracte).

Except, the problem is exactly that, its buried deep within the settings.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 04:35 PM   #44
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Well theres the battery meter on the top when you tap on the top portion of the screen.

Then theres the battery percentage indicator buried deep in the settings somewhere (which is nowhere near accuracte).

Except, the problem is exactly that, its buried deep within the settings.
No it isn't. You go to settings and then battery saver.

It's accurate. If it seems like its changing its because something with usage habits has changed. I've killed my arrive plenty enough times to see its accuracy.
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Old Apr 27, 2012, 12:17 PM   #45
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Would the Nokia Lumia 900 be a good smartphone choice for someone that isn't going to be using it beyond weather, news, directions, and e-mail?

Basically, not for a "power user", just for a person who wants a phone.
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Old Apr 27, 2012, 05:05 PM   #46
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Would the Nokia Lumia 900 be a good smartphone choice for someone that isn't going to be using it beyond weather, news, directions, and e-mail?

Basically, not for a "power user", just for a person who wants a phone.
That's the way it starts but then you start getting into apps. I started with Yelp one night and a couple months later had my phone loaded with stuff.

Not that you wouldn't be totally happy with a Lumia. Just don't go into it thinking you don't really care about apps. Apps can be extremely useful.
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 06:57 AM   #47
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Would the Nokia Lumia 900 be a good smartphone choice for someone that isn't going to be using it beyond weather, news, directions, and e-mail?

Basically, not for a "power user", just for a person who wants a phone.
I have the 800 and it's perfect for what you described. It's not a nerd phone.
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 07:05 AM   #48
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I have the 800 and it's perfect for what you described. It's not a nerd phone.
Same here, that's exactly how I use mine.
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 12:24 PM   #49
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That's the way it starts but then you start getting into apps. I started with Yelp one night and a couple months later had my phone loaded with stuff.

Not that you wouldn't be totally happy with a Lumia. Just don't go into it thinking you don't really care about apps. Apps can be extremely useful.
I never said I didn't care about apps...
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 10:51 PM   #50
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iPhone 3GS or Lumia 900 - which do you pick?
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 12:01 AM   #51
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iPhone 3GS or Lumia 900 - which do you pick?
The Lumia would be the better pick. With the way iOS operates, a lot of new apps and features will not work well once the next gen phone comes out. That has been the typical MO and as a result, the user experience will likely suffer faster than with the Lumia 900 with it's OS.

Hope that makes sense
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 12:24 AM   #52
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iPhone 3GS or Lumia 900 - which do you pick?
Lumia as the screen on the 3GS is pretty low res 480 x 272 or something like that, the writing will look a bit blurry. Plus if it matters to you. 3GS only has a 3.5 inch screen where as the Lumia has 4.3 inch. Plus the Lumia will be way faster. 3GS is a few gens old now.

Ive had a 3GS, and now have a Lumia 800. Difference is night and day.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 08:10 AM   #53
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Plus the Lumia has LTE if your city has it.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 09:39 PM   #54
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I ask because the 3GS is free (probably for a reason) where the Lumia is $99 a pop.

Coming from an eight year-old flip phone I'd probably be happy with the iPhone.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 11:19 PM   #55
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I strongly suggest avoiding the 3GS at this point, only because if it's updated to anything past iOS 4.0, it'll slow down to the point of uselessness.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 10:54 AM   #56
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I'll be getting the Lumia as soon as it's back in stock.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 02:25 PM   #57
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I ask because the 3GS is free (probably for a reason) where the Lumia is $99 a pop.

Coming from an eight year-old flip phone I'd probably be happy with the iPhone.
When picking your phone you might want to consider what you will be spending just for the data plan. On ATT, 3GB of data/month is $30 (300 MB is $20). Basically $720 over the two year contract.

Money is money but for the amount you are spending on the data plan, it is worth getting a phone you will enjoy using for the next 2 years.
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Old May 7, 2012, 10:07 PM   #58
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We're not, as you say, being raped by Apple in accepting a subsidy outlay up front and recouping costs over the lifetime of the contract. But the more that is put up by the carriers to meet a price point the customer's are wanting, is more that needs to be baked in to the monthly MRC and recaptured during the life of the service with the carrier.
.

*reads the news*

http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/05/s...one-deal-cost/
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Old May 7, 2012, 10:16 PM   #59
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I still stand by my original response.
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Old May 8, 2012, 06:15 AM   #60
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I still stand by my original response.

If the rumored 40% isn't steep then what is?
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