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AMD Fusion, Integrated and Mobility Support Discussion and technical support forum for AMD integrated and mobility graphics platforms including Accelerated Processing Units, Netbooks, Ultra Portables, Notebooks, HTPC and SFF.

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Old Apr 8, 2012, 02:21 PM   #1
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noko
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Default Commodore 64x Fusion Rig, might be fun



It uses a mimiITX form factor mobo and an APU would probably work well here. Maybe more nostalgia then usefullness but thinking about:

ASRock A75M-ITX FM1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157273

C64x BareBone
http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64Select.aspx
http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx

A6-3500 APU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103951

MiniITX P/S
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817104080

BluRay Player but more likely a cheaper DVD/burner drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827118070
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827151242

SSD would be ideal but more likely a 2.5" HD to go along with it. I missed that small form factor keyboard type pc system. They are suppose to have an Amiga500 version in the future. Any thoughts?

Last edited by noko : Apr 8, 2012 at 03:21 PM.
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Old Apr 9, 2012, 04:21 PM   #2
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very cool.
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Old Apr 10, 2012, 04:48 AM   #3
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Yes agree but will be challenging to get something pushing all the limits. The power supply I listed above won't work, not enough room, an external one will be needed. I may just go with an A8-3870K unlock APU, not to increase but to decrease clocks if needed to usable TDP or conditions. Modifications to case with a narrow but large fan on the bottom blowing air up, redesigned mobo back plate to allow air flow out (large hole screen). Thinking also using a hybrid drive. Some at Amiga-org have put 2500K processors in them but are having heat issues, plus no room for a video card so they are stuck with Intel graphics . An AMD APU would blow away that configuration in virtually anything graphical (virtually everything one does now with computers). Still it will need to be quiet, great performance and cool to the touch.

Really wish Trinity was out with motherboards etc. but that looks to be off at this time.
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Old Apr 10, 2012, 11:17 AM   #4
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I don't think you'd need a K-series for underclocking. All the AMD procs are down clock unlocked, you can set lower than max multiplier on standard CPU's, and the voltage controls are down to the mobo.
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Old Apr 10, 2012, 01:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman-jim View Post
I don't think you'd need a K-series for underclocking. All the AMD procs are down clock unlocked, you can set lower than max multiplier on standard CPU's, and the voltage controls are down to the mobo.
GPU is also unlocked on the K series is what I understand so another enticement to go for. This will be a very challenging build to do right.
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Old Apr 10, 2012, 03:07 PM   #6
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Again I think thats down to mobo, the 3850 I've got let me overclock the GPU and it's not a K-series. /shrug

That said, some bigger hardware sites are being shown Trinity this week (laptop variant) and May/June looks to be the launch time for it. Desktop to follow this summer, I expect it to be unveiled at AFDS but we'll see.
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Old Apr 11, 2012, 12:04 AM   #7
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New chipset and socket as well? So about a 6 month wait if going with a Trinity setup. Could see some great sells for Llano though . Trinity has Piledriver core with VLIW 4 (480 shaders or more?)?

65w processor shouldn't be to much a problem for removing heat, a 100w processor a different ball game mainly due to space constraints and what is available for the HSF.
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Old Apr 11, 2012, 12:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman-jim View Post
Again I think thats down to mobo, the 3850 I've got let me overclock the GPU and it's not a K-series. /shrug

That said, some bigger hardware sites are being shown Trinity this week (laptop variant) and May/June looks to be the launch time for it. Desktop to follow this summer, I expect it to be unveiled at AFDS but we'll see.
Cool! Now I can use the Trinity version or the one with GCN in an Amiga500 (My favorite computer of all time) build when ever Commodore releases the retro case for it .
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Old Apr 11, 2012, 01:17 PM   #9
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Default It started



Well I made my first purchases down this path. First is the unique power supply which will fit inside the rather humble case. A picoPSU-160. A 12vDC driven power supply:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00..._ya_os_product

Basically it converts the 12vDC input to supply the motherboard and devices. What supplies the power supply is an external 12vDC brick, since 160-200w range it is relatively big external power supply. I just so happen to have such a 12DC power supply - My X-360 p/s, it is rated at 12vDC and 16a. I may use something else but what better use for an utterly unused piece of equipement.

The next item is DDR1600 DDR3 by SamSung:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820147096

What is special about this ram is it is about half height (needed to clear case) but runs at 1.35v as well, more importantly reading the reviews it will OC well past 2000mhz, 2133mhz and above at less then 1.5v. Fast ram should help a Llano processor to perform better particulary the GPU part.

Also bought a slim SamSung DVD burner, nothing special, just cheap at $23.99 plus shipping. Below is image of powersupply and ram.

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Old Apr 11, 2012, 02:34 PM   #10
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Sweet, love PicoPSU's. I need to get one for my APU testing.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 11:31 AM   #11
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Does anyone sell the female power supply connector on the 360? I really like the 360 P/S, I could install an on/off switch on the Commodore 64x machine turning the P/S on and off. I've looked on the internet but can't seem to locate one. Maybe a local repair center with a defunct 360 will sell me a used one or have them in stock.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 12:06 PM   #12
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Why not change the end on the XBOX 360 power brick?
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 12:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman-jim View Post
Why not change the end on the XBOX 360 power brick?
Yes I could but then brick will be no good for the XBox360 (Not as if I use it though ). Called a number of local XBox repair centers here and none have it as an obtainable part. I guess Microsoft is rather picky here.

Came up with another solution, install 4 pin female Kycon connector on P/S, make a cable with two 4 pin male Kycon connectors which will plug into the XBox P/S and picoPSU-160. Also install switch on XBox P/S to turn on and off the 12v rail.

Other option is to buy a pico 16a P/S for $49:
http://www.mini-box.com/12v-16A-AC-DC-Power-Adapter
If the cost of converting XBox P/S becomes significant I will just get the above P/S (more fun though in making the Xbox p/s to do what I want ). Now if I didn't jump the gun with the PicoPSU-160 on Amazon, I could have gotten both for $75: (Too late now, still cheaper with the 360 p/s, about $18 for the plugs/socket)
http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-160-...pter-Power-Kit

Last edited by noko : Apr 12, 2012 at 01:01 PM.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 01:27 PM   #14
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Caveman,

Do you know if using Llano in Hybrid CFX, 6870 + Llano you can turn off the Llano GPU for game rendering and use the discrete card via the motherboard port (HDMI) and not the video card port?

Do you know if async CFX is supported in Linux?

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by noko : Apr 14, 2012 at 04:20 AM.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 02:25 PM   #15
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You can't crossfire a 6870 with Llano, the top GPU is Turks (6500, 6600).

Currently I believe you have to have the display attached to the GPU you want to use for rendering, in desktop systems. This is different than mobility APU systems that have switchable graphics, but that technology hasn't made it to the desktop - yet.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 03:29 PM   #16
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Thanks, did find that Dual Graphics Mode (correct term I found out) does work in Linux (Commodore OS related).

Anyways did some tests to give me a rough idea where I stand on power using my 960T 4 cores at 3ghz is rated at 95w while the A8-3870 is rated at 100w and HD 6670 video card. Running Mafia II benchmark I hit around 145-150w at stock GPU and CPU settings. Decreasing GPU to 600/1000 from 800/1000 gave me about 8w savings (mem in CCC can't go below stock). Reduced cpu to 2.4ghz and 1.1v from stock 1.35v and power went to around 120w. This is wall outlet power so actual power out of power supply is roughly .8 of that so .8 x 120 = 96w from the power supply. If Llano is similar to the 960T I should be able to do a Dual Graphics Mode setup if I can fit the card inside of case, it looks like I can but won't really know until I get the case, mobo etc.

To use the card either I get a pcie extension cable - they run various prices from $3 to $56
http://www.orbitmicro.com/global/pe-...2-p-15074.html
or
A riser card (which I am not sure will work but would sure make it easier to mount).
http://www.orbitmicro.com/global/pe-...2-p-15074.html

I would have to use the mobo video output unless I use a cable to make a new port on the C64x case which maybe doable.

Last edited by noko : Apr 13, 2012 at 03:32 PM.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 04:56 PM   #17
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If you're running dual graphics mode then you won't need to worry about the video card output, it'll go through the mobo video output you choose; unless you want eyefinity, in which case you'll need to use all the outputs on the discrete card.

You've got the right idea for comparing power, the APU system in dual graphics should be similar to the phenom system with similar graphics, so better for gaming but you'll lose out on your total cpu performance, which shouldn't matter much for the main part - but you already know that

You're correct that Linux supports dual graphics with the AMD drivers installed, so be sure that you're platform can run the dependencies etc. needed for the Catalyst drivers.

riser vs. cable is harder, really dictated by your case and how you'll mount the card. the good thing is you can add it later as you've got gfx on the apu so you get make it a two phase project and not stall the whole thing thinking about one issue.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 01:57 AM   #18
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Yes that is true plus the APU by itself will pack a rather big punch for the configuration. Did find a 16x pcie riser card for $15 pictured here in rack mount 1U server:

http://www.plinkusa.net/webitx102.htm

I could always run a short HDMI cable from the card to outside the box so there are plenty of options to use either.

Received cooler today which is a 1U copper based cooler, rather massive to say the lease. It is rather heavy, paid $20 for it, I think it will work good and I have more confidence in ability to cool the APU.

http://www.directron.com/k8le710ba.html

Last edited by noko : Apr 14, 2012 at 01:59 AM.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 03:09 AM   #19
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NewEgg has $15 gift card plus 10% off on Llano processors, so I went ahead and bought a A-3870K; after gift card and coupon $106.

10% discount code = AMDAPU412

Also of note if I can use a riser pcie adaptor (not cable) the backplane and video card output will be right at the back of the case, so one more option is to open up and make a slot for the video card ports, this will also allow future LP cards to be used more easily.

Last edited by noko : Apr 14, 2012 at 03:55 AM.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 02:08 AM   #20
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Quick update:
Just ordered a 500gb hybrid drive from newegg for $89.99 with promo code EMCNFHN53. Was going to get the 750mb version but for that price I didn't want to past that up.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc..._-22148591-L0E
Also ordered the miniITX AsRock board
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157273

The Samsung memory arrived a few days ago and man is it small. Done on 30nm process. Who has that? Samsung? The A-38770K also arrived, still in box. Will have to take some pictures and post here. Hopefully by end of next weak I will be having benchmarks on rig not installed in case. I still have to order the case but in no hurry.

Last edited by noko : Apr 21, 2012 at 02:12 AM.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 11:36 AM   #21
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Quick update here:

Have most parts now, here is the 1.35v DDR1600 ram which is virtually half height and is made on 30nm process. You can see the size compared to a normal stick of DDR1600 ram from Corsair.



More parts here, found out I was missing a couple though:



Before I modify the motherboard with 1U cpu HSF plus to make sure mobo/ram/cpu is working did a quick benchtest. Was going to load an operating system but discovered I need a slimlime Sata connection for the small DVD drive, which is now on order. The motherboard overvolted the ram to 1.65v which suppose to run at 1.35v, easily corrected by bios setting. Power usage looks really good but havn't done enough tests yet. So I am about ready to order the Commodore64x case and go from there.

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Old Apr 30, 2012, 01:25 AM   #22
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My mobo undervolted my ram to 1.35 which is suppose to run at 1.65
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 11:43 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iphone5 View Post
My mobo undervolted my ram to 1.35 which is suppose to run at 1.65
, lucky your ram worked! My Corsair do not like low voltage at all, at least my sticks. Always good that we check out the bios for proper settings
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Old May 9, 2012, 01:39 PM   #24
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This project continues to come together.

Ordered the Commodore64x case, pcie 16x extension cable, two cooling fans.

Finally got the slimDVD drive adapter, so I loaded up Win8 which had no issues in detecting everything and working. LinuxMint12 would loose the display booting from the live disk when using the APU so I installed my HD 5570 and set it to Primary in the bios which allowed installation of LinuxMint12 after booting up with the Live Disk.

Prime tested for 36min, no issues.
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Old May 14, 2012, 02:56 PM   #25
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Almost a disaster installing an AMD 2 1U HSF on the cpu. Removing the cpu HSF clip holder was easy since it used plastic pins.

The AMD 2 cooler has a back plate that is mounted on the bottom of the mobo but there are ICs on the back of the mobo where the backplate would touch. This would put a lot of pressure on those ICs plus would cause the backplate to tilt. So I used several rubber O-Rings and installed the HSF with the screw and spring type hold down for the copper HSF. Since the backplate was not touching the board now, when I tightened down the screw it warped the motherboard since the back plate was not touching. Stupid me.

In the bios I lost the cpu temperature after this, it just said N/A.

I then removed the HSF and back plate and used more rubber O-rings to support the backplate more evenly plus make contact with the backplate and mobo via the o-rings. This seems to have worked.

In Win 8, prime95 for over an hour with CPU at 3ghz (default speed) ram at DDR1600, CPUID Hardware monitor is indicating each core temp plus cpu temp from mobo (started working again hurray!). Fan speed is at 60%, 100% cpu usage, highest cpu core temp is 52C but mobo cpu temp indicates 65c. APU indicates 52c. Looks like the mobo cpu temp is reading higher then actual. Anyways the HSF is working great, better then I thought it would.

Received case a couple of days ago, waiting for some 120mm fans and I should be installing setup inside of case. Oh also I still need to modify the xBox360 p/s.
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Old Jun 14, 2012, 01:22 PM   #26
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Finally broke open the box I got from Commodore, ahmmm lets see a month ago . Love the mechanical keys on the keyboard. Figuring out mounting a rather huge fan plus preliminary ideas for a video card. The double width His 6670 poses some issues in this setup. Think I go with Jim's suggestion of building setup first then add a card later. Installing a single width low profile card looks very doable as a note. More later with some more pictures.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 01:17 PM   #27
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Some case images:

Commodore captured the spirit of old with a colorfull box. Of course this is a barebone case for a custom build so the information on the box is really Commodores full sell version, mine will be very different for the guts inside.







The mechanical keys feel really solid, smooth and nice to press, case is quality molded to reflect the name sake, except this time around it is much higher quality. As you see not much inside, but things can change .





I already modified the case with a 120mm case fan sitting on bottom so more images upcoming. Been working 60+ hours a week at work so this project is going at a snail pace.
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Old Jul 4, 2012, 11:30 AM   #28
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Here is initial fan configuration, a 120mm fan mounted on the bottom, 12mm thick fan with enlarging the slots some. This actually proved to be not sufficient, more on that later.



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Old Jul 4, 2012, 11:36 AM   #29
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Looks awesome. Keep the pics coming.
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Old Jul 4, 2012, 11:37 AM   #30
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Starting to put the stuff inside:




Some testing without the keyboard hooked up using 300w ps in the mean time. The 300w ps 12v plug, plugs right into the PicoPS, jumper out pins 4 and 5 to turn on the power supply.




Now with the 64 keyboard installed and Win8 loaded. Unfortunately once the upper case of the keyboard is attached cooling is not sufficient (yet). I am going to have to open up the flow path more for the thin fan, hopefully this will do the trick.


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