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Old Apr 26, 2012, 06:55 PM   #31
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Hyrax
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I have no problem with that.

I wasn't trying to be funny either We are grossly over-populated and abusing and destroying the planet we are on (the only one we have). The pictures just prove the impact we have on our planet and it's all negative.

By the way, you have provided no counter-argument apart from asking me to kill myself.
Quit being EMO!
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Snatches scare me. I once saw this dude break his elbow doing one :shock:

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Old Apr 26, 2012, 07:06 PM   #32
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Naa, nuke Canada. 30 million useless souls that produce nothing.
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Aheemm.









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Snatches scare me. I once saw this dude break his elbow doing one :shock:
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Old Apr 27, 2012, 02:14 PM   #33
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Depends how you look at it. My perspective and the reason for my comment was that our population has put such pressure on the planet that we are leaching all the resources for ourselves. Look at the pictures and it's clear to see that all the vegetation and natural areas that were taken over by humans lead to the destruction of habitat for other species.
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Old Apr 27, 2012, 05:00 PM   #34
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No idea what your point is there perky.
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Old Apr 27, 2012, 08:49 PM   #35
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No idea what your point is there perky.
I'll sum it up like this:

I don't subscribe to the view that we are viruses. We are extraordinary beings and have earned our way to the top over millions of years of evolution. Are we hurting the rest of the world, and by extension, ourselves? Absolutely. We may very well be the cause of our own destruction. But on the grand scheme of things we really don't matter. It is our time now, and it may be short lived. I don't want to see our species wiped out in droves just because we are hurting the planet. If anything, that should be incentive for us to try better. We should invest in getting ourselves off this planet as that is really our only future. There have been longer lived species than us that were wiped out in the proverbial blink of an eye. We have to accept that we may not be the pinnacle of evolution nor is there any indication that the earth is even its prime. The earth will continue on long after us, nature will keep doing it's thing. Us losing 3/4 of our population will not stop the natural course of things, and would be downright tragic.
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Old Apr 27, 2012, 09:47 PM   #36
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Perky you said all the things I would've said had I given any ****s to explain myself, and quite well I might add. :golfclap:
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Old Apr 27, 2012, 11:42 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perky McGiggles View Post
I'll sum it up like this:

I don't subscribe to the view that we are viruses. We are extraordinary beings and have earned our way to the top over millions of years of evolution. Are we hurting the rest of the world, and by extension, ourselves? Absolutely. We may very well be the cause of our own destruction. But on the grand scheme of things we really don't matter. It is our time now, and it may be short lived. I don't want to see our species wiped out in droves just because we are hurting the planet. If anything, that should be incentive for us to try better. We should invest in getting ourselves off this planet as that is really our only future. There have been longer lived species than us that were wiped out in the proverbial blink of an eye. We have to accept that we may not be the pinnacle of evolution nor is there any indication that the earth is even its prime. The earth will continue on long after us, nature will keep doing it's thing. Us losing 3/4 of our population will not stop the natural course of things, and would be downright tragic.
There is a disconnect between the poetic beauty of what you have put forth v/s the reality of our actions on the planet.

In history, there has been a natural balance. Predators and prey, there has always been a symbiotic relationship in nature. We have progressed beyond that and no longer subscribe to any natural cycle.

The selfishness and greed that we as a species exhibit has already inhibited us severely and while I would love to see us get off this planet and move forth elsewhere, keep in mind that the TSA, an entity formed after 9/11, is better funded than NASA.

Time-lines matter not, it is all relative. In OUR lifetimes, which the pictures encompass, we see exactly what we are doing. As a species with intelligence, we have only been around for a short time and I would love for us to get out of the self-serving rut we are in.

Us losing 3/4 of our population would not mean anything in the grand scheme of things for humans, but it would give the rest of the planet a chance to follow it's own natural course. We don't need 7 billion people on this planet. Even 1 billion is too much.
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 01:33 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
There is a disconnect between the poetic beauty of what you have put forth v/s the reality of our actions on the planet.
Exactly.

If we remove the human element entirely from the discussion, the conclusion is we are the most unnatural and undesirable force on the planet. The goal of humanity should be harmony, but instead we are all leeches with little regard for the consequences. The bottom line is not enough care, in fact it has become en vogue to make fun of people that actually try to be environmentally responsible.

The core problem is our entire economy is dependent on excess and waste.
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 03:36 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
Us losing 3/4 of our population would not mean anything in the grand scheme of things for humans, but it would give the rest of the planet a chance to follow it's own natural course. We don't need 7 billion people on this planet. Even 1 billion is too much.
You have no way of knowing what's best and what isn't. You don't know if the planet would be better or worse off with humans. A meteor could hit us tomorrow and that would be the end of the Holocene, and drastically change the course of evolution again. And that is my whole point, we are just one era of this earth's history. We can wipe ourselves out and most the animals and that still would be nothing compared to a cosmic event that has happened on earth before. Our huge brains have gotten us far, but evolutionary it may not be the best form. Until the sun dies the earth will have many, many, chances to recover from any damage we could attempt to do. Even if after we are gone all that is left is microscopic organisms that is still a "win" if you want to think about it like that.
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And he sayeth unto Perky, the numbers 2, 5, and/or 7 are an
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 03:49 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perky McGiggles View Post
I'll sum it up like this:

I don't subscribe to the view that we are viruses. We are extraordinary beings and have earned our way to the top over millions of years of evolution. Are we hurting the rest of the world, and by extension, ourselves? Absolutely. We may very well be the cause of our own destruction. But on the grand scheme of things we really don't matter. It is our time now, and it may be short lived. I don't want to see our species wiped out in droves just because we are hurting the planet. If anything, that should be incentive for us to try better. We should invest in getting ourselves off this planet as that is really our only future. There have been longer lived species than us that were wiped out in the proverbial blink of an eye. We have to accept that we may not be the pinnacle of evolution nor is there any indication that the earth is even its prime. The earth will continue on long after us, nature will keep doing it's thing. Us losing 3/4 of our population will not stop the natural course of things, and would be downright tragic.
I agree with most of this, but the (very popular) idea that we just need to build a big ship, set it off and somewhere out there is a planet we can live on is a fiction imo.

Even if we somehow manage to find a planet that has the same gaseous mix, the same gravity, large reserves of liquid water and actually get there with enough resources to survive and enough people to have a viable population, and actually manage to get there, we're almost certainly going to find that we're largely or completely incompatible with their biosphere. In which case we're probably going to have to burn and pave and grow our own food (and forever filter water) that we can actually live off...

People watch too much startrek imo.
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 03:59 AM   #41
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I agree with most of this, but the (very popular) idea that we just need to build a big ship, set it off and somewhere out there is a planet we can live on is a fiction imo.
I know, but at least it would be a constructive goal.
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 08:39 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by andyfowler View Post
I agree with most of this, but the (very popular) idea that we just need to build a big ship, set it off and somewhere out there is a planet we can live on is a fiction imo.

Even if we somehow manage to find a planet that has the same gaseous mix, the same gravity, large reserves of liquid water and actually get there with enough resources to survive and enough people to have a viable population, and actually manage to get there, we're almost certainly going to find that we're largely or completely incompatible with their biosphere. In which case we're probably going to have to burn and pave and grow our own food (and forever filter water) that we can actually live off...

People watch too much startrek imo.
Terraforming Mars seems a little easier.
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