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Old Apr 14, 2012, 06:04 AM   #211
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You forgot to mention your Blue Ray player.
Well I did get 8 updates today so I need to test that out again. Did I mention the convoluted way to find the shutdown/restart button? It is easier just to pull the plug or hit the computer power button.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 09:18 AM   #212
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As for using whole screens, watching a video while doing other stuff with Metro would be almost impossible. Doing multiple things or more then one thing going on (hence multi-tasking) with a single tasking type interface sucks. Would be flipping around screens left and right. I hope option to just turn off Metro, wipe all metro apps and have a real Start menu will become available. The rest of Win8 and how it performs looks good.
Ummmm....

You do realize that this only applies to Metro Apps? Using any normal desktop app you don't have this limitation. Also, Metro is a real start menu. This is well trodden ground so I will suggest that you go back and read through the thread.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 10:11 AM   #213
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Ummmm....

You do realize that this only applies to Metro Apps? Using any normal desktop app you don't have this limitation. Also, Metro is a real start menu. This is well trodden ground so I will suggest that you go back and read through the thread.
Ok, let see how well Win 8 does at the box office .
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 11:00 AM   #214
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Ok, let see how well Win 8 does at the box office .
I am confident it will do horribly. But as I already said, that is just the MS curse. I predict windows 9 will be almost the exact same thing and do terrific.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 11:10 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by aviphysics;
Also, Metro is a real start menu. This is well trodden ground so I will suggest that you go back and read through the thread.

But a bad one. For instance, in Win7 I can right click over Computer and do Manage, Properties, etc. Sure, I can push Computer into the Metro window... but no right clicks.

I haven't figured out any way to nest multiple applications/documents/etc inside a single metro slot. Sure, I can create a folder full of shortcuts, drag the folder there, and then open the folder and double-click the shortcut, but that gets rid of the whole "ease of use" thing.


That Metro screen has a long way to go to be as useful as the Win7 start menu. It's less a start menu and more a "Desktop #2"... big icons allowed... check... Gadgets running/updating dynamically.. check... full screen... check. I've always hated shortcuts on my desktop... feel cluttered and disorganized. And I've had nightmares about some desktops I've seen with a hundred shortcuts, documents, etc, on some people's... I don't see how they keep Metro from doing the same thing.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 03:48 PM   #216
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I have been using this for a few days now on the other PC.

I really dislike Metro and the simplified interface.

It seems really gimped and tacked on.


They should just leave it as a program itself (like Media Center). Nobody will probably use it anyway.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 03:49 PM   #217
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I'd actually go as far as to say Windows 8 is completely unnecessary.

Is Windows 7 really that long in the tooth already? I don't think so.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 05:17 PM   #218
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They should just leave it as a program itself (like Media Center). Nobody will probably use it anyway.
That is exactly why they shouldn't (at least for the purpose of their interests). An important part the Metro strategy is about creating a larger platform base for developers. Currently the biggest problem with their mobile platform is a small user base that isn't attracting developers. This potentially solves a large part of that problem. The trick is going to be presentation. The biggest problem with Metro isn't functionality (Metro is in fact as functional or more functional than the start menu) but the fact that many users arn't seeing that functionality. MS needs to do something to help people get used to it.

MC is the exact model of how to waste a bunch of time and money.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 05:30 PM   #219
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I'd actually go as far as to say Windows 8 is completely unnecessary.

Is Windows 7 really that long in the tooth already? I don't think so.
It is necessary for MS to help bring together their mobile and desktop platform. By allowing people to run mobile apps on their PC (BTW most tablets have about the same resolution as many people's PCs) they massively expand the user base for mobile app developers. Unfortunately this has also resulted in inducing a knee jerk reaction in a large portion of their user base because of a pretty poor delivery and the fact that how to operate Metro isn't very obvious for a normal Windows user. For example, it just kind of assumes the user is going to explore the edges of the screen.

Without something like Win 8 MS might as well give up on the mobile space.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 05:39 PM   #220
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Without something like Win 8 MS might as well give up on the mobile space.
One could argue they should anyway...
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 09:25 AM   #221
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I have zero interest in running mobile apps on a pc or pc apps on a mobile phone, I believe many would share that opinion. Mobile apps in general are utterly gutless and limited with pc apps infinitely more usable on the PC. Using pc apps on a mobile phone would seem pointless, due to viewing constraints, processing ability etc.

Now sharing data between the two would be useful but same apps? Unless they have hybrid modes for both platforms to allow this only. File compatibility would be the key, not the apps themselves.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 12:05 PM   #222
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I think most of us are in a very poor position to predict what the majority of users want. Most of the people on this forum are way to detached from the way the vast majority of people use their computers.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 12:18 PM   #223
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One could argue they should anyway...
If you saw how proficiently my 5 year old uses a tablet device I think you would understand why they are such an important market. I really wouldn't be surprised if in 13 years she isn't totally comfortable with a tablet as her primary device. I don't think the windows PC is going to die off anytime soon but I can definitely see the long term shift coming and now is the time to be planting seeds. Otherwise, in 50 years (when we start dying off and our children take over) Windows might just be some obscure business workstation OS and MS won't have any foothold in the consumer OS market.

Making Windows tablet friendly isn't for the benefit of people that use PCs like us. It is preparation for where things are headed in the future. A sort of bet that the market is going to shift and in order to be ready for that shift MS needs to start doing something now.
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 04:31 AM   #224
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Official product names:

Windows 8
Windows 8 Pro
Windows RT

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b...-editions.aspx
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 07:43 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by aviphysics View Post
If you saw how proficiently my 5 year old uses a tablet device I think you would understand why they are such an important market. I really wouldn't be surprised if in 13 years she isn't totally comfortable with a tablet as her primary device. I don't think the windows PC is going to die off anytime soon but I can definitely see the long term shift coming and now is the time to be planting seeds. Otherwise, in 50 years (when we start dying off and our children take over) Windows might just be some obscure business workstation OS and MS won't have any foothold in the consumer OS market.

Making Windows tablet friendly isn't for the benefit of people that use PCs like us. It is preparation for where things are headed in the future. A sort of bet that the market is going to shift and in order to be ready for that shift MS needs to start doing something now.


MS needs a mechanism to "unmetro" any application does does the fullscreen thing... menu item, it pops into a window and behaves like normal. Without that I have a feeling that their release is likely to be Vista'd.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 08:54 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by aviphysics View Post
If you saw how proficiently my 5 year old uses a tablet device I think you would understand why they are such an important market. I really wouldn't be surprised if in 13 years she isn't totally comfortable with a tablet as her primary device. I don't think the windows PC is going to die off anytime soon but I can definitely see the long term shift coming and now is the time to be planting seeds. Otherwise, in 50 years (when we start dying off and our children take over) Windows might just be some obscure business workstation OS and MS won't have any foothold in the consumer OS market.

Making Windows tablet friendly isn't for the benefit of people that use PCs like us. It is preparation for where things are headed in the future. A sort of bet that the market is going to shift and in order to be ready for that shift MS needs to start doing something now.
I think you have very good insight there, great points. Well anyways I freed my mind and just used Win8 and was able to do what I wanted so it is usable, does look more optimize as in quick, start menu can work for me as well.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 05:17 PM   #227
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Official product names:

Windows 8
Windows 8 Pro
Windows RT

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b...-editions.aspx
Well, it's about time MS simplified their Windows product line! Sure, one consumer x86 edition would be better than two, but it's definitely a step in the right direction.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 05:27 PM   #228
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MS failed when attempting to shrink down a desktop UI onto a mobile device.

And MS will fail when attempting to blow up a mobile UI onto a desktop.

Also, is aviphysics an MS shill or what?

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Old Apr 18, 2012, 06:51 PM   #229
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MS failed when attempting to shrink down a desktop UI onto a mobile device.

And MS will fail when attempting to blow up a mobile UI onto a desktop.

Also, is aviphysics an MS shill or what?
Agreed... I think this will make Vista look wildly successful No comment about aviphysics.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 10:11 PM   #230
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MS failed when attempting to shrink down a desktop UI onto a mobile device.

And MS will fail when attempting to blow up a mobile UI onto a desktop.

Also, is aviphysics an MS shill or what?
What I said in specific regards to what MS is trying to do with Metro and why they should be trying to do it. It is not a statement on the quality of their work.

My other statements in this thread are mostly based on facts about what you can and can't do in Metro and directly comparing that to what you can and can't do with the start menu.

I do make some statements based purely on opinion and they are labeled as such. Several of them are exactly positive and I will say that I did not instantly warm up to the OS.

If you would like to provide some fact based statements or even an opinion much more specific than "win8 sucks" I would be glad to discuss them with you. Calling me a shill isn't exactly productive. Perhaps you could start by describing which of my specific statements you disagree with and why.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 11:17 PM   #231
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And MS will fail when attempting to blow up a mobile UI onto a desktop.
Old desktop is still there.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 07:39 AM   #232
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Didn't like the idea of losing my DOS stuff when 95 came out, was afraid of XP when it came out, vista was meh, and then at first I didn't see what the big deal about seven was over vista. So I have a history of not really looking forward to the next OS release; however.....

can those of you running the preview put up some more screenshots? SURELY it has to look better than what we've seen. The only reaction I've been able to come up with so far is "OMG, this sucks!!!" We've gone from dreamscene and the aero desktop to this?!? Hey, M$, 1993 called, it wants its interface back.




someone show me how my fears are unfounded and ridiculous. please.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 07:58 AM   #233
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Didn't like the idea of losing my DOS stuff when 95 came out, was afraid of XP when it came out, vista was meh, and then at first I didn't see what the big deal about seven was over vista. So I have a history of not really looking forward to the next OS release; however.....

can those of you running the preview put up some more screenshots? SURELY it has to look better than what we've seen. The only reaction I've been able to come up with so far is "OMG, this sucks!!!" We've gone from dreamscene and the aero desktop to this?!? Hey, M$, 1993 called, it wants its interface back.




someone show me how my fears are unfounded and ridiculous. please.
Sorry, YMMV.

If you have such a strong reaction without using the OS, not sure what can change your mind besides actually using it yourself. No point in my posting screen-shots just to hear a variety of comments on it that have nothing to do with my personal user experience

It works perfectly fine for me and that's all that matters. It is fast, smooth and is becoming more intuitive. I am looking forward to the next gen hardware to support the OS. Dell just announced it will have a Day 1 tablet release (including corporate security features) so I have a feeling I'll be using that device or a variant as my work device.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 09:35 AM   #234
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Sorry, YMMV.

If you have such a strong reaction without using the OS, not sure what can change your mind besides actually using it yourself. No point in my posting screen-shots just to hear a variety of comments on it that have nothing to do with my personal user experience

It works perfectly fine for me and that's all that matters. It is fast, smooth and is becoming more intuitive. I am looking forward to the next gen hardware to support the OS. Dell just announced it will have a Day 1 tablet release (including corporate security features) so I have a feeling I'll be using that device or a variant as my work device.

There are parts of it that I like... being able to mount ISOs to install from without installing 3rd party applications was a cool unexpected feature, for example (windows AIK.) I think they need to put a little more effort into appeasing people that want the old desktop back or similar and making sure that "metro style" apps don't take over and alienate us.

For example, customizable "metro-start" icons that let you attach right clicks/actions to a popup menu would go a long way to appeasing me since it would let me work-around some of the elements I dislike.


Edit: Hey, it's a preview... features aren't locked down, development is still happening. It could be that by the time it's released I'll be pleased as punch. I'm hoping that's the case.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 04:40 PM   #235
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is becoming more intuitive.
Sorry it's either intuitive or it's not, it can't "become" intuitive.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 01:13 AM   #236
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Looks like some of the design choices was ment to clean up the enviroment. Less pop ups which once you know what you doing then just gets in the way. So Win8 initially is not very intuitive and is different from win 7 and previous versions, after you get to know it you start to appreciate the less interferance from the OS. One example is the pop up that use to drive me bananas on XP " You have unused icons on your desktop, . . ." Over and over again until I finally figured out how to turn that stupid things off.

Task manager is much nicer and way more usable, the file manager now has ribon menu's which I like a lot. Inserting a cd/dvd etc you get an out of the way, big but simple option block in right upper corner basically play/open or no action which will automatically go away after a period of time, you don't have to click on it. Downloading, transferring files gives you a running graph on transfer rates. These are some nice stuff I like. Metro environment is unique and is a non windowed enviroment, sticking the so call Start Menu there I do not like, think is very inefficient but that is just one side of the experience. The metro start menu is a big context switcher for user, working in the desktop, unless you have a shortcut or task bar item you will get a total wipe of your desktop going into metro Start menu with a whole page or pages of big and sometimes just plain ugly Icons which most you may use seldom. There are parts I really like and others that just suck.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 08:13 AM   #237
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Sorry it's either intuitive or it's not, it can't "become" intuitive.
You can begin to understand the premise of the control scheme and thus learn to predict what kind of actions will achieve the desired effect.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 02:08 PM   #238
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You can begin to understand the premise of the control scheme and thus learn to predict what kind of actions will achieve the desired effect.
True but that still doesn't make it intuitive. Actually for a regular Windows user Windows 8's Metro UI is very counter-intuitive. Hence most of the hostility to it from the folks here IMO.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 08:50 PM   #239
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True, but once you let go of trying to find close and minimize buttons and realize you have to go to the edges/corners, grab n' drab etc, the interface really starts to make sense.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 11:42 PM   #240
aviphysics
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious View Post
True but that still doesn't make it intuitive. Actually for a regular Windows user Windows 8's Metro UI is very counter-intuitive. Hence most of the hostility to it from the folks here IMO.
That use of "intuitive" makes just as much sense. If you want to knit pick word choice you should follow your own advice.
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