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Old Feb 16, 2012, 09:34 AM   #301
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Durango? Really? Are they just trying to make us sound stupid when we talk about the hardware in-house?
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Old Feb 19, 2012, 03:25 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qb2k5 View Post
Good info Bob thanks.

The Xbox rumor bells at Kotaku are ringing but nothing spec wise.



Now thats a weird name.
Not a weird name unless you like going to Broke Back mountains.
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Old Feb 19, 2012, 03:52 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by bobvodka View Post
Unfortunately, right now, D3D is the be all and end all of API/tech. when it comes to graphics.
OpenGL is trailing and the ARB continue to be unable to take a leading role (despite being made up of companies including NV and AMD) with defining feature sets etc.
The API is a bit of a mess, the tools aren't the greatest.
From a programming point of view D3D11 is the best toolset we have.

On their PCs Apple don't even push the hardware, they tend to trail a bit and more so on the OpenGL supported version.
Yet despite the tools not being the greatests that does not explain why Dx is better than OpenGL or why there are still game devs using OpenGL to make their 3d engines.

As for D3D11 being the best toolset you have... then why are there only a few games that can actually claim Dx11 hardware+API compliance? why are game devs if its so damn easy and better not just going for the best instead of PC gamers constantly complaining and blaming consoles for "ports"

Quote:
Console wise the 360's GPU was better than the PS3s; this is a fact simply based on the hardware so even when Sony had money they failed to push the boundries beyond a DX9 device, and a poor one at that.
Well I never implied or made any versus GPU contest but since you are doing so let me ask you a question. Why if the Xenos if its so easy and so super supremely technologically advanced why is it that this generation has been **** when it comes to image quality and 3d effects?

Basically why is the technical boundary stuck on Dx9 device this entire gen on Xbox 360?

And also equally important how in the hell was Sony going to "push the boundries beyond a DX9 device"?

I am curious about that one as DirectX is an intellectual property and registered trademark owned by Microsoft. Direct X sure as hell does not belong to Nvidia nor ATI-AMD.

Quote:
Nintendo realised a while back they could make more money not chasing graphics, although that plan might back fire on them we'll see.
And what does that mean? that Nintendo has the financial income to have made a similar tech/gen hardware as the Xbox 360/PS3 back in 2006? please explain that.

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Even mobile tech isn't pushing things; sure it's an intresting space if you want to recreate something in the lowest possible power situation about that's about it.
I don't know who is arguing this point... other than the current market showing people wasting/throwing wads of cash on mobile tech that is not even in the same type of market as consoles since those devices are disposable and mostly useless after a couple of years.

Quote:
Really, right now, hardware is pretty much only advancing under MS's whip and even that might slow down depending on what the cancelling of the DX SDK and its folding into the Windows SDK means for internal direction at the company.
(I'm still hoping for a new API/driver model but I suspect that'll be post Win8, maybe in time for Win9).

So, dislike them as much as you like without them we'd probably still be sitting around DX8 level hardware with a fragmented API like OpenGL (or god forbid per IHV APIs... *shudder*) and no clear direction forward. Not perfect but I'd rather advance with a few faultering steps (DX10 killed by a Vista FUD campaign) than with the mess the ARB was 5 years back (in fact MS's dominance is the reason they are as 'together' as they are right now and it's still not as good...).
"DX10 killed by a Vista FUD campaign" WTF?? what does that mean, when did that happen?

A "clear direction forward" you mean a proprietary direction owned by Microsoft right? its not like other companies can actually use Direct X is it, then they would get sued like the company that Microsoft owns that sued Sony for the vibration feature patents right?

How can you guess what hardware we would have had... The PS2 was the result of a rushed response to Sega's not so secret generational jump and mess of a last hardware console. How do you think things will turn out if rumors turn out true that Apple is planning a Console entry in the next couple of years? The market would be in chaos and certain smaller companies like Nintendo or Sony might not be able to stay in the console market anymore perhaps...

I still don't see how Microsoft pushed hardware advance... Did they wait for a DirectX 10 GPU when they easily could have done so and contract HD-DVD for a push on higher storage solution? no they did not, they instead rushed out a console in 2005 a short time after they had already pushed out a console in 2001.

And its clear that all of this defensive crap on the rumored Radeon HD 6670 GPU customized is just going to continiue to perpetuate the holding back of technology.

Just look at what AMD made with the 7950 GPU, its 210W, down from 250W on the same 28nm process, if a next Xbox launches in 2013 it could have a further improved (thats the only thing I expect nothing less) power level of the 7970 GPU customized with eDram for console use and actually push something forward for once.

Otherwise they are expecting people to pay 50% for Kinect NextGen and 50% for cutdown crippled slow console tech that we can expect CoD to reign supreme at the same 3d graphics levels but at 1080p finally, really sad and backwards.

Console gamers and hardware tech fans have a right to question and criticize companies decisions, its not all about stocks and bonds.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 04:51 PM   #304
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MS says that there will not be any new Xbox hardware announcements for a long time.

And they really Meant It.


Quote:
"While we appreciate all the interest in our long-range plans for the future, we can confirm that there will be no talk of new Xbox hardware at E3 or anytime soon. For us, 2012 is all about Xbox 360-and it's the best year ever for Xbox 360. The console is coming off its biggest year ever-a year in which Xbox outsold all other consoles worldwide. Xbox 360 didn't just outsell other consoles, it also outsold all other TV-connected devices like DVD players, as well as digital media receivers and home theatre systems. And in our seventh year, we sold more consoles than in any other year-defying convention.

This year, we will build on that Xbox 360 momentum. With "Halo 4," "Forza Horizon," "Fable: The Journey," and other great Kinect games on the way, our 2012 Xbox lineup is our strongest ever. This year, we will deliver more TV, music, and movie experiences for Xbox 360-as we'll make it even easier to find and control your all entertainment. And this year, Xbox games, music, and video are coming to Windows 8 so people can enjoy their Xbox entertainment wherever they go."

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Very sad news.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 04:54 PM   #305
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I don't think its sad. Its still a great console and they're waiting till people's pockets are fatter so as to be able to make the most of a new gaming franchise.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 05:06 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Qb2k5 View Post
MS says that there will not be any new Xbox hardware announcements for a long time.

And they really Meant It.




Very sad news.
I really don't find the 360 appealing anymore. I think it has to do with target demographics. It is just too much of the same, Halo, Gears and such. Compare it to what the PS3 offers now, Journey, Heavy Rain, God of War and Dark Souls; most of these games seem more "meaty" to me.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 05:30 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Hidavi View Post
I don't think its sad. Its still a great console and they're waiting till people's pockets are fatter so as to be able to make the most of a new gaming franchise.
I agree it is a great console (i rank it higher than the SNES) and I'm still enjoying the many games that come out on it, but 9 years is a long time. That's if they are planning a 2014 fall launch date. I mean you wouldn't see Apple still selling a 7 year old IPad for $299. But thats for another topic.

Heck it wouldn't be so bad if developers went the old way in developing like aiming for a midrange spec PCs and porting down to consoles afterwards. What makes it even more sad is that in 2014 we will still be seeing DX9 port jobs if things continue the way they are going. People who spent $500 on their GTX880s and HD9970s that support DX12 will be pissed knowing that an old GTX460 could still games maxed out at 1080p30fps. Sometimes I question MS why release new DX updates if they won't be taken advantage of and they are the prime reason that graphics are being held back on the pc platform?

That's why I keep saying Valve needs to step up and hurry up with the release of their Steam Box while they have time. If they make an announcement at E3 and launch it in fall of this year, they will at least have a 1yr and a half window to gain a consumer base and get things rolling. Valve has almost the same amount of users on the Xbox and PS3.

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Old Mar 18, 2012, 06:34 PM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qb2k5 View Post
I agree it is a great console (i rank it higher than the SNES) and I'm still enjoying the many games that come out on it, but 9 years is a long time. That's if they are planning a 2014 fall launch date. I mean you wouldn't see Apple still selling a 7 year old IPad for $299. But thats for another topic.

Heck it wouldn't be so bad if developers went the old way in developing like aiming for a midrange spec PCs and porting down to consoles afterwards. What makes it even more sad is that in 2014 we will still be seeing DX9 port jobs if things continue the way they are going. People who spent $500 on their GTX880s and HD9970s that support DX12 will be pissed knowing that an old GTX460 could still games maxed out at 1080p30fps. Sometimes I question MS why release new DX updates if they won't be taken advantage of and they are the prime reason that graphics are being held back on the pc platform?

That's why I keep saying Valve needs to step up and hurry up with the release of their Steam Box while they have time. If they make an announcement at E3 and launch it in fall of this year, they will at least have a 1yr and a half window to gain a consumer base and get things rolling. Valve has almost the same amount of users on the Xbox and PS3.
Valve already nuked the steambox idea as nothing more than a interface development platform and not consumer hardware. I wouldn't be holding your breath for it by any means.

As for the next Xbox, MS is not going to confirm or deny anything that will cut into sales of the current platform and that's just good business tactics. Once a confirmed date for new hardware is in stone, the current gen will lose sales for those waiting for the new box.
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Old Mar 23, 2012, 04:03 PM   #309
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yeah Valve did nuke it but they still said that if they have to go hardware to gain more market share they will do it.
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Old Mar 23, 2012, 04:48 PM   #310
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More Friday rumors:

Rumor: Microsoft to Launch ARM-based Xbox in 2013

Quote:
One ARM-based Xbox planned for end of 2013, while the successor to the 360 will launch 'some time after' that.

Microsoft has been pretty vocal about the fact that it thinks the current Xbox console, the Xbox 360, still has a lot of life left in it. However, that hasn't stopped people from talking about the next Xbox, rumored to be called the Xbox 720 and codenamed Durango.

Though Microsoft has said it won't be talking about the new Xbox at E3, or any time soon, the rumor mill continues to plug away, churning out gossip about Durango. We've already heard that Microsoft is ditching the optical drive and instead replacing it with another breed of solid-state storage, such as SD cards, and today brings yet more rumors about the newest Xbox. According to an AMA ('Ask Me Anything') post over on Reddit, Microsoft has not one, but two Xboxes planned.

Tomshardware
This is more of a repeated rumor that was reported a few months ago.
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Old Mar 24, 2012, 08:46 AM   #311
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I cant really figure out why they´d want to go with 2 different xboxes?
A ARM based arcade Xbox would require it´s own set of arcade/kinect games, why peel that casual market away from the "main" console, and why shut the casual crowd out of "hardcore games"?
And it seems like they´re setting themselves up to compete with mobile gaming, with a non-mobile device. (low(er) spec HW, kinect instead of touch, more casual focus)
Atleast the 3Ds and Vita have that mobility, even if it is another device to haul around.

Not seeing any logic in doing this, which makes it hard to take that rumour seriously.
But maybe Im missing something.

Maybe if you brand it as a media player of sort, with Kinect support for couch armflailing to navigate, and some lighter game support.
But branding it Xbox and not being able to play Xbox games (like Gears of War 4 or whatever), seems confusing and counterproductive.
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Old Mar 24, 2012, 04:25 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by jolle View Post
I cant really figure out why they´d want to go with 2 different xboxes?
A ARM based arcade Xbox would require it´s own set of arcade/kinect games, why peel that casual market away from the "main" console, and why shut the casual crowd out of "hardcore games"?
And it seems like they´re setting themselves up to compete with mobile gaming, with a non-mobile device. (low(er) spec HW, kinect instead of touch, more casual focus)
Atleast the 3Ds and Vita have that mobility, even if it is another device to haul around.

Not seeing any logic in doing this, which makes it hard to take that rumour seriously.
But maybe Im missing something.

Maybe if you brand it as a media player of sort, with Kinect support for couch armflailing to navigate, and some lighter game support.
But branding it Xbox and not being able to play Xbox games (like Gears of War 4 or whatever), seems confusing and counterproductive.
where did they say they're putting out two XBOXs?
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Old Mar 24, 2012, 06:21 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Hidavi View Post
where did they say they're putting out two XBOXs?
The post above mine, read about it earlier aswell on nordichardware, refering to this:
http://www.bgr.com/2012/03/22/arm-ba...nsider-claims/
"they" as in MS hasnt said it, just a rumour (that imo makes no sense as I mentioned in the post)

Essentially the rumour is one ARM based arcade/kinetc one, and another one that is the real followup to the 360.
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Old Apr 8, 2012, 11:08 AM   #314
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Xbox Devkit Specs Detailed, Will Have 16-core PowerPC CPU, 7000 series "SI" GPU, and Bluray Drive.

Many Developers are aiming for 2012 E3 to reveal their next generation game software.

Quote:
According to the latest issue of Xbox World magazine, devkits for Microsoft’s next generation console are already in the wild, and were shipped to developers in March. The first devkits reached a select number of developers after Microsoft’s hush-hush developer’s conference in London on February 28, 2012. The purpose of the conference was to brief European representatives on the new hardware, which is codenamed Durango – the meeting was subsequently confirmed by a senior technical artist at Crytek, who tweeted that he was “enjoying the Durango developers summit in London. So far, great swag and interesting talks.” Further meetings were held for American developers at the Game Developers’ Conference in San Francisco, with Durango devkits shipping “shortly afterwards.”

The publication states that current devkits will not mirror the final hardware in appearance, however, initial specifications are representative of the console set to ship in late 2013. Sources close to Xbox World magazine have revealed that Durango’s devkit features a “monster” 16-core IBM PowerPC CPU, a GPU comparable to AMD’s Radeon HD 7000-series graphics cards, and a Blu-Ray optical drive.
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Old Apr 8, 2012, 11:55 AM   #315
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Those specs sound about right
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Old Apr 8, 2012, 11:56 AM   #316
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Question is, will it be a 7900 gpu or will it be something less? The CPU sounds like it'll be sick.
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Old Apr 8, 2012, 01:52 PM   #317
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Question is, will it be a 7900 gpu or will it be something less? The CPU sounds like it'll be sick.

It should be a 7900 just to match it with the uber powered 16 core CPU.

I mean, it'll probably only cost 1000 dollars but thats nothing to the hardcore.
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Old Apr 8, 2012, 02:04 PM   #318
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It should be a 7900 just to match it with the uber powered 16 core CPU.

I mean, it'll probably only cost 1000 dollars but thats nothing to the hardcore.
Well hopefully the games made for it will actually use more then 2 cores and when ported over to the PC will allow Bulldozer to actually use greater then 25% of it's cores.
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Old Apr 8, 2012, 02:04 PM   #319
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At 1000 boners, they might as well think about shutting down the division lol.
Btw, this means no power hungry games this year as well. Might be worth re-buying a 6970 and calling it a day. lol
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Old Apr 8, 2012, 02:08 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jolle View Post
I cant really figure out why they´d want to go with 2 different xboxes?
A ARM based arcade Xbox would require it´s own set of arcade/kinect games, why peel that casual market away from the "main" console, and why shut the casual crowd out of "hardcore games"?
And it seems like they´re setting themselves up to compete with mobile gaming, with a non-mobile device. (low(er) spec HW, kinect instead of touch, more casual focus)
Atleast the 3Ds and Vita have that mobility, even if it is another device to haul around.

Not seeing any logic in doing this, which makes it hard to take that rumour seriously.
But maybe Im missing something.

Maybe if you brand it as a media player of sort, with Kinect support for couch armflailing to navigate, and some lighter game support.
But branding it Xbox and not being able to play Xbox games (like Gears of War 4 or whatever), seems confusing and counterproductive.
Why not have an Xbox with an arm and x86 based? You could have a media mode where it only uses ARM and you would also lower power and heat and then for intense things like games the x86 kicks in.
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Old Apr 8, 2012, 08:03 PM   #321
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I wonder if consoles have seen their days? Folks are more interested in smart phones and iPads which can game. If the next xbox is expensive it may just gather dust on shelves. Plus next generation of pads and smart phones may connect up to a TV set anyways.
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Old Apr 8, 2012, 08:31 PM   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noko View Post
I wonder if consoles have seen their days? Folks are more interested in smart phones and iPads which can game. If the next xbox is expensive it may just gather dust on shelves. Plus next generation of pads and smart phones may connect up to a TV set anyways.
However a game that looks great on a phone or pad generally look like crap hooked up to a TV. 1080p quality gaming on a mobile device that isn't a mini game just isn't practicle let alone hardware limited.
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Old Apr 10, 2012, 05:41 PM   #323
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Too bad its fake..
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Old Apr 10, 2012, 05:45 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquach View Post
It should be a 7900 just to match it with the uber powered 16 core CPU.

I mean, it'll probably only cost 1000 dollars but thats nothing to the hardcore.
They could go the Cell like route and assign some of the extra cores to handle graphics tasks like depth of field, motion blur, shader based AA, color grading, particle effects, etc.

But thats if MS plans to use the 6670.
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Old Apr 10, 2012, 10:42 PM   #325
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I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so with that said, assuming Microsoft does use a 16 core CPU or a 4 core, 4 SMT CPU, would they also still go with dual GPUs? It's a pain in the butt to keep up with all these rumors & reports.
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Old Apr 11, 2012, 02:59 PM   #326
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IMO the only way you are likely to see dual GPUs is with a Fusion + dGPU setup.
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Old Apr 11, 2012, 11:44 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobvodka View Post
IMO the only way you are likely to see dual GPUs is with a Fusion + dGPU setup.
They'll create a new phenomenon:
The Xbox360 had the RRoD: Red Ring of Death.

This one will have MTRFoKR:
Multi-GPU Tearing and Rending Framesplit of Kiddie Rage
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 08:33 PM   #328
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I know news in here has been slow, but it looks like the pot is stirring up again...

The guys at VGLeaks were able to find new pictures of the Xbox Durango Alpha kit. It matches the same kit that a dude named DaE tried to sell on eBay for I think $15K.

http://www.vgleaks.com/rear-durango-...the-alpha-kit/



Notice the MS asset tag is clearly shown. Someone is getting in trouble.

Here is the same supermicro case the guys at B3D were able to hunt down: http://www.supermicro.com/products/s...HR_.cfm?IPMI=Y

The guys at B3D think the GPU is either based on the 6800 or 6900 HD series of AMD gpus. There is also a PCIe expansion card with 4 blue USB 3.0 ports. Many anonymous developers and friends of developers who lurk NeoGaf and B3D have confirmed that the alpha kit is indeed real.

Last edited by Qb2k5 : Sep 20, 2012 at 04:26 PM.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 10:58 PM   #329
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Heh, I knew that was a Supermicro case before I even read past the first link. I've built a number of servers in those cases in the past.
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 12:53 PM   #330
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Considering what they can do currently with 5 year old hardware, I am excited to see the next gen Xbox.
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