The ECA has made it nearly impossible to stop auto-renewal

[TenFour]

http://consumerist.com/2009/12/eca-t...canceling.html

Many folks joined the ECA to get a free Amazon discount. Right after that happened, they removed the Amazon discount.

Now they have removed any way to turn off auto-renewal of your membership on the web site. They also say they will not accept e-mails to cancel your membership. And if you turned off auto-renewal before they removed the checkbox, it didn't work.

And they say the only way to cancel now is with a written letter. But their TOS says they cannot guarantee they receive any letters, so you have to use something like UPS with delivery confirmation.

Also, don't think an expiring credit card will work. They say in their TOS that if a charge is not accepted, they will keep trying new expiration dates until it does.

This thing turned out to be a huge scam. Got to cancel my credit card now.

[DeathKnight]

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...9&p=1336097403

That's why I never sign up for these kinds of things just to get a discount.

[Zero]

To people who have signed up, the solution is quite simple.

[Jamar]

You could cancel auto renew when I signed up (which apparently is now being claimed as a glitch). The 10% off on Amazon was great. Paid for release day shipping.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally Posted by Zero

To people who have signed up, the solution is quite simple.

[Leprechaun]

I'm not even sure what this is about but it doesn't matter.
I'm sure there's laws, they are required to make it possible to cancel whatever you're in. You didn't sign some contract did you? If not then they can't get you in any way. Call your CC company and tell them not to allow charges from whomever you're talking about. By law they have to give you an accessible way to cancel out of whatever the hell you're apparently in, and it doesn't even seem like an agreement/contract.

I can't offer to charge you only $10/mth to do something, then disappear forever with you having to pay $10/mth for something you don't want for the rest of your life just because you can't get a hold of me or I refuse to let you stop getting my useless services. WTF is this thread about anyways?

[GanjaStar]

wow their forums have ore locked threads then not. someone needs to go their offices with a shotgun

[Zero]

Originally Posted by GanjaStar

wow their forums have ore locked threads then not. someone needs to go their offices with a shotgun

Here is an official statement from the ECA's head honcho:

http://forums.theeca.com/showthread.php?t=7105

We were disheartened to read some of the coverage and comments related to complaints regarding our member cancellation policies this morning. The issue seems to have begun following a guest article that I penned a few months ago, where I highlighted the various policy issues that gamers should be aware of – from Net Neutrality and Universal Broadband to Digital Rights Management (DRM) and End User License Agreements (EULAs). I concluded the piece by providing those who had taken the time to diligently read the article with a coupon code, encouraging them to sign up for a free trial membership… the logic being that we’d like to have readers who care about the issues among our ranks. For about four weeks following the publishing, we had a small bump in new member acquisition, but they were not coming from the article, unfortunately. These new members were coming from websites and forums that were solely promoting the coupon code, sans important reading.

Within a relatively short period of time, some of the new members found an exploit in one of our partners’ promotional codes and spread the word. The partner tried to resolve the situation, during which time we removed any references to the program, but ultimately it was decided that the offer be terminated. We advised members as soon as we were aware and reassured them that we were working on additional offers with new partners. We updated our website during the same timeframe in a long planned for Content Management System upgrade and an inactive back-end feature became visible, which looked to give some members the option to opt-out of the association. We were alerted to the error and removed the non-functioning feature immediately. Because it was viewable and then removed, those same few members became concerned that it was a feature that had been live all along and was suddenly removed. We then attempted to explain the situation and allay their concerns.

There were then concerns about the auto-renew structure of our payment system and business model related to that same function. We explained that we are working on ramping up infrastructure to become more automated going forward, but due to a small but active number of members who were repeatedly joining, leaving and re-joining the organization – in an effort to exploit our member benefits and unduly take advantage of our partners’ generous offers – we would require a mailed letter, as per our membership agreement. Needless to say, that incensed the exploiters who then contacted the Better Business Bureau (BBB) and their personal banks to report that we attained their membership under fraudulent conditions, in effect committing fraud themselves. Upon investigating the opened investigations, the respective banks and BBB all found ECA to be soundly reputable. We understand that several of the banks have since opened fraud investigations into their customers and that they take such matters very seriously.

Over the past few years, membership in the ECA has grown substantially, the primary reason for which is directly attributable to the important work done by the association, partnerships formed with coalitions, parallel trade associations and corporations, all eager to help defend the rights of game consumers. We have added many valuable benefits for members including discounts on games-related goods and services, purchases and rentals and a whole host of additional affinity benefits. We have several retail partners who offer significant promotions and several more, which are in the process of being finalized. It is important to note that the number of members who were/are involved in this unfortunate issue is very small and not representative of the organization as a whole. We sincerely thank the dedicated ECA members and the gaming community for their understanding and support on this matter and we look forward to continuing to grow the organization to suit the needs of the consumers.

Hal Halpin-ECA President

That statement and their policies make sense given what I know about the kinds of people lurking on deals sites. Make what you will of it.

[Koviack]

don't drink the koolaid k bro? those "terrorists" who contacted the BBB and their banks were regular people who wanted to cancel, because the reason they had joined (10% amazon discount) was removed.

maybe i'm just a conspiracy theorist at heart, but that letter is full of lies

[DeathKnight]

I'm more inclined to believe that letter. There are really shady people out there that will do anything to save a buck.

[Sound_Card]

I work at target, and I know first hand the amount of people would try anything to save a buck. From scamming returns to providing coupons they don't even have items for trying to fool the cashier.

Lesson learned. Don't sign up for anything that requires a credit card.

Also, the problem is mass confusion. The ECA really is trying to do their best in promoting, but due to some exploiters, they changed policy that in the end hurts everyone. I do think it's wrong for him to say that people complaining to the banks and BBB are frauds is out right slander and that statement should be pressed right back on him. I also think it's wrong that a crack some of internet tards advertise a loophole across the web starting this issue in the first place.

[Zero]

Originally Posted by Koviack

don't drink the koolaid k bro? those "terrorists" who contacted the BBB and their banks were regular people who wanted to cancel, because the reason they had joined (10% amazon discount) was removed.

maybe i'm just a conspiracy theorist at heart, but that letter is full of lies

koolaid? terrorists?

Uh-huh...

[nomore]

Originally Posted by Jamar

You could cancel auto renew when I signed up (which apparently is now being claimed as a glitch). The 10% off on Amazon was great. Paid for release day shipping.

I did love the 10% off from amazon since I mostly buy games from there.
I don't want to turn this into an argument but people stacked up amazon codes for a long time even before I joined ECA and ECA didn't really do anything during that time.
even though they claimed that to be a "software glitch", that was very hard to believe.
because the codes must have been coming from amazon, and I get promotional codes, credit codes, discount codes...and etc. from amazon all the time and all of those codes have an expiration date. and because of that I am still having a hard time to believe this was a software glitch. plus there was not any statement on the eca website that you can't use the old codes with the new codes and etc.
I think amazon was going to leave ECA anyway, and ECA let this happen on purpose.

and now all the members have to suffer or be concerned about what ECA is going to do next.

[SKey]

Originally Posted by Zero

Here is an official statement from the ECA's head honcho:

http://forums.theeca.com/showthread.php?t=7105



That statement and their policies make sense given what I know about the kinds of people lurking on deals sites. Make what you will of it.

Originally Posted by DeathKnight

I'm more inclined to believe that letter. There are really shady people out there that will do anything to save a buck.

According to arstechnica, the discount code scam had nothing to do with cancellations/renewals.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2...s-cry-scam.ars

I have no idea why you guys would accept that letter at face value anyway. To me, it read like a classic example of deflection and trying to obfuscate an issue without saying anything.

[Zero]

Originally Posted by SKey

According to arstechnica, the discount code scam had nothing to do with cancellations/renewals.

If the discount code has nothing to do with cancellation/renewals, then who is crying foul over this issue? The problem is, people started stacking the coupons long before the GI free membership offer even started (process was sign up, get code, cancel, repeat *cancelling was important to avoid multiple membership charges*). The GIMAG offer just made a bad situation even worse.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2...s-cry-scam.ars

I have no idea why you guys would accept that letter at face value anyway. To me, it read like a classic example of deflection and trying to obfuscate an issue without saying anything.

What are they obfuscating? They're pointing out the issues and what steps they've tried to resolve the situation. Unfortunately, the whiners who only care about getting their pathetic amazon discount generally have no idea how business works and chalk it up to "the man tryin' to scamz me!".

Here is a slightly more balanced perspective on the issue by game informer (original posters of the deal):

http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archi...-problems.aspx

Originally Posted by Game Informer

We've contacted the ECA for comment and will update the story as necessary. Let's not break out the torches and pitchforks just yet, though; this seems like an awful lot of work to go through to swindle people out of a whole $20 per year. Hopefully this is simply a case of the organization's left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

The only dubious issue for me is that they claim you can't cancel by email because there's too much volume for them to handle. How exactly is it any different from snail mail?

[SKey]

They are obfuscating the real concerns/issues/problems that people have with their shady business practices by bringing up issues that have little to nothing to do with what people are complaining about. Almost nobody would begrudge them closing a loophole or stopping a scam from occurring, but when they blame their own suspect billing practices on something that has nothing to do with it (scamming amazon codes), it seems like double talk to me.

If the opt-out feature was always non-functional and only shown for a short time by mistake (paragraph 2), how could exploiters be using joining/quitting/joining (paragraph 3) be the problem?

Looks to me like ECA canceled the amazon discount perk (possibly due to scamming) and everyone started canceling their memberships so they did their best to make it difficult for people to quit. When people started complaining about having to jump through hoops to stop being billed, they started with the double speak and tried to blame scammers for everything when the vast majority of people who were trying to quit probably never even heard of the coupon code scam.

Maybe its not illegal, but it sure seems suspect to me and their shady practices will likely cause a stampede of people trying to get out even if they never used an amazon coupon in their life.

[TenFour]

Originally Posted by Zero

The only dubious issue for me is that they claim you can't cancel by email because there's too much volume for them to handle. How exactly is it any different from snail mail?

The major dubious issue is the supposed fact that they will keep trying different expiration dates on your credit card if the first one doesn't work. That screams scam. They are forcing people to renew membership, and taking extra effort to do it. None of their reasoning about unmanageable amounts of e-mail would explain them going through extra effort to force people to renew.

Disclaimer--I got the above info from another forum post, and haven't verified that it's true. Supposedly it's somewhere in the TOS.

Either way, the honest thing to do would be to change auto-renew to opt-in, since their button one their web site supposedly never worked.

[nomore]

Originally Posted by SKey

They are obfuscating the real concerns/issues/problems that people have with their shady business practices by bringing up issues that have little to nothing to do with what people are complaining about. Almost nobody would begrudge them closing a loophole or stopping a scam from occurring, but when they blame their own suspect billing practices on something that has nothing to do with it (scamming amazon codes), it seems like double talk to me.

If the opt-out feature was always non-functional and only shown for a short time by mistake (paragraph 2), how could exploiters be using joining/quitting/joining (paragraph 3) be the problem?

Looks to me like ECA canceled the amazon discount perk (possibly due to scamming) and everyone started canceling their memberships so they did their best to make it difficult for people to quit. When people started complaining about having to jump through hoops to stop being billed, they started with the double speak and tried to blame scammers for everything when the vast majority of people who were trying to quit probably never even heard of the coupon code scam.

Maybe its not illegal, but it sure seems suspect to me and their shady practices will likely cause a stampede of people trying to get out even if they never used an amazon coupon in their life.

this pretty much sums my thoughts and my concerns.
even if 10% off from amazon comes back, I don't really want to be associated with ECA anymore.
it is a shame because I believed in their mission before joining and promoted ECA here as well.

I post a lot of deals on the PC forums and some on the console forums and sometimes I promote some deals multiple times but this is the only deal I posted that made me feel truly ashamed for posting it.
I guess there is a first time for everything.

[nomore]

just an update -
I wrote a letter with my name and my e-mail address to ECA and asked them nicely to cancel my account completely so I won't get charged... anyway I tried to login today and it states my username has not been activated or is blocked.
so I guess it is safe to say my account is terminated.

[Jamar]

Would be nice if they sent you an email confirmation or a letter back. I guess I'll have to be doing this. To bad they really pissed this one away.

[nomore]

Originally Posted by Jamar

Would be nice if they sent you an email confirmation or a letter back. I guess I'll have to be doing this. To bad they really pissed this one away.

I didn't get anything from them yet but maybe they will send me a letter.
actually I am kinda hoping they will send a letter so I can have a copy of it. and I gave them a credit card I still use even though I don't use it much, but I am thinking I should maybe cancel it just in case.

I still feel bad about posting this deal and promoting it. I didn't know it would turn into a hassle like this.

[Jamar]

You weren't the only one fooled by them. Reading the message board posts by Halpin and others after this went down really had them showing their true colors.

[KickAssCop]

Serves nomore right for becoming a scammer to save a buck...

j/k btw

I find the issue funneh! Coz first thing my pappy told me when I was growing nuts was never to use credit card on internet for a promotion and/or deal...

[nomore]

another update-
I just got an e-mail from ECA about the termination of my membership:

To Whom It May Concern:

Thank you for your letter requesting to terminate your membership with the Entertainment Consumers Association (ECA). This letter is confirmation that your request has been processed and your membership in the organization, cancelled.

All credit card information relevant to processing your dues has been removed, so if you wish to re-join the association going forward new/updated payment information will need to be manually re-entered.

To re-join the ECA, please visit http://www.theeca.com.

Thank you.

so I guess I won't be cancelling the credit card I gave them.

Originally Posted by KickAssCop

j/k btw

you forgot the at the end of that.

[Jamar]

Per CAG and tested myself you can now cancel / end auto renew in your profile.

[0091/2]

Originally Posted by Zero;1336102304
[url

http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2009/12/02/news-eca-cancellation-problems.aspx[/url]



The only dubious issue for me is that they claim you can't cancel by email because there's too much volume for them to handle. How exactly is it any different from snail mail?

Maybe if people cancel by mail it would half of what they receive by E-mail. Since people sign up then cancel just to get the coupon code. If canceling by E-mail is quicker people would repeat the process to get the code. If done by mail which is slow it could probably reduce cancellation due to people take advantage of the promotion offers. Does that make sense?

[TenFour]

Originally Posted by 0091/2

Maybe if people cancel by mail it would half of what they receive by E-mail. Since people sign up then cancel just to get the coupon code. If canceling by E-mail is quicker people would repeat the process to get the code. If done by mail which is slow it could probably reduce cancellation due to people take advantage of the promotion offers. Does that make sense?

Except that there is no coupon code any more so no one would have an incentive to do that.

And no one would bother to cancel if they let you turn off auto-renewal of drafts on your card.

[Jamar]

You can turn off auto renewal as well as cancel now.