ATI MPEG Video decoder performance issue

[Galmok]

I am using DVBViewer to receive a DVB-T stream that contains a H.264/AAC stream. The H.264 stream contains a 1280x720@50Hz stream and ATI MPEG Video decoder can't decode this in real-time. It manages about 43 fps, losing quite a lot of frames.

With the Divx H.264 software decoder, DVBViewer manages a perfect 50 fps decode speed, not losing even a single frame.

Is the ATI MPEG Video decoder not offloading anything to the GPU? If it is, I am baffled why it is slower than a cpu-only codec. I do acknowledge that the Divx guys have worked hard on their H.264 decoder but I really did expect ATI to easily surpass it in decoding speed...

[Kraeshok]

Have you tried MPC-HC video decoder? Not sure if it works but some other people had the same idea over a year ago it seems.
http://www.dvbviewer.info/forum/inde...pic=27107&st=0

you can get the decoder from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpc-hc/files/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpc-...9.zip/download

MPCVideoDec.ax - it's a very capable dxva h.264 decoder however if it works with DVBViewer yet I don't know.

If this doesn't work the solution I could find from a quick search was using PowerDVD decoder which works with hardware acceleration though costs money.

As for the ATI MPEG Video Decoder, can't really comment or help you with it.

[zulu-man]

I could never get ATi's decoder working with DVBViewer or DVBDream.
It's better if you download PowerDVD 8 Trial and use then its h.264 decoder.
(MPC HC videodecoder didn't work for me)

[Galmok]

Originally Posted by zulu-man

I could never get ATi's decoder working with DVBViewer or DVBDream.
It's better if you download PowerDVD 8 Trial and use then its h.264 decoder.
(MPC HC videodecoder didn't work for me)

I tried the powerdvd 8/9 decoders, but they are slower than ATI's (37 fps).

[Galmok]

Originally Posted by Kraeshok

Have you tried MPC-HC video decoder? Not sure if it works but some other people had the same idea over a year ago it seems.
http://www.dvbviewer.info/forum/inde...pic=27107&st=0

you can get the decoder from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpc-hc/files/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpc-...9.zip/download

MPCVideoDec.ax - it's a very capable dxva h.264 decoder however if it works with DVBViewer yet I don't know.

If this doesn't work the solution I could find from a quick search was using PowerDVD decoder which works with hardware acceleration though costs money.

As for the ATI MPEG Video Decoder, can't really comment or help you with it.

Tried both MPC the player and the codec with DVBViewer, but it can't play H.264 1280x720@50Hz. It tries, but the result is extremely corrupted. Also, there is no DXVA acceleration. I guess the ATI 4870 doesn't support it.

This means only the Divx decoder is freely available for windows that can handle 1280x720@50Hz.

[Kraeshok]

If you're trying the regular MPC then no, there is no filters with DXVA. For DXVA support you need to get MPC-HC and set it up properly (XP need WMR 9, vista/win7 EVR or EVR Custom under options->playback->output, restart player after changes). If you somehow didn't manage to get DXVA please check with a bluray movie or a file with h.264 content to make sure your driver is behaving properly.
Which OS is this under?
WMR9, EVR goes for settings in DVBViewer as well.
You know if the offloading works by having less then 10-15% cpu usage while decoding h.264 content, if DVBViwer doesn't say DXVA or something similar..

[Auric]

Slight correction: with XP, several renderers are DXVA capable -not just VMR9 Renderless. Indeed, VMR7 Windowed is default and often best (except in the case of subtitles).

I am not familiar with DVBViewer, DVBDream, nor Windows 7, but if there was no DXVA with various decoders (MPC-HC ffmpeg, ATI, CyberLink) in MPC-HC then I would suspect the splitter. Use MPC-HC internal not the likes of Haali which is a common mistake amongst "1337 n00bs" under the false impression that it is "teh best". CyberLink splitter is also good and indeed allows for best performance in some cases but is not compatible with as many format combinations as MPC-HC internal.

DXVA Checker may be useful but the 4870 certainly sports DXVA so the issue is with software somewhere.

Finally, do not get "hung up" with a particular file which may not even be compliant. Rather, test with known good files -Apple is a reliable source but of course the QuickTime format must be set to use DirectShow.

[zulu-man]

Originally Posted by Galmok

I tried the powerdvd 8/9 decoders, but they are slower than ATI's (37 fps).

It worked with my HD3850&WinXP&Win7.
DXVA is on? So the next problem can be, that the wrong renderer is used, it must be VMR9 (there is an experimental EVR, but I had problems with it&WinXP).

And Cyberlink's h.264 decoder (PowerDVD8) works fine with my HD4850.

[Galmok]

PowerDVD 8/9 codecs are slower than ATI's codec, but maintain proper aspect ratio in DVBViewer (ATI's codec doesn't handle source aspect ration properly). Neither ATI's, nor Cyberlinks (powerdvd's) codecs are fast enough to handle 1280x720@50Hz (note the 50Hz).

Regarding DXVA, yes, MPC-HC does use DXVA but when downloading the codecs for MPC-HC and registering them for use in DVBViewer, they do not use DXVA. I use VMR9 renderer in DVBViewer. Anyway, MPC-HC cannot play the DVB-T data stream (tried with a .ts file) nor was the MPC-HC codec able to play the live broadcast (severe corruptions, just as with the .ts file).

I am using Vista64. DVBViewer is 32bit app and the codecs for MPC-HC are 32 bit as well.

Using the DivX H264 decoder in DVBViewer, I have a cpu usage of 5-8% (Core i7 920) at 1280x720@50Hz.

I have settled for the DivX H264 decoder as nothing else can match the speed of it (nor the capabilities, i.e. can render DVB streams/files which MPC-HC cannot).

Update: I retried a the codecs again, registering and unregistering various codecs to ensure only the one I want to test is loaded and it turns out that I can't actually use PDVD8/9 codecs for DVB streams. Also, ATI's codec suddenly is able to decode 1280x720@50HZ at full speed (but still has the aspect ratio problem). The cpu usage with Divx codec matches the cpu usage of ATI's codec. So no point in using ATI's codec.

[Auric]

I frequently play DVB sources (both AVC and MPEG-2) in TS using MPC-HC with CyberLink 7 decoders and DXVA from a 3650. But, using XP32 and VMR7W. And CPU usage is nil for the typical 20Mbps 1080i50. 5-8% usage of an i7 for 720 material seems like no DXVA.

Again, for Vista and Windows 7, EVR should be used. Why are you using VMR9R?

[Galmok]

Originally Posted by Auric

I frequently play DVB sources (both AVC and MPEG-2) in TS using MPC-HC with CyberLink 7 decoders and DXVA from a 3650. But, using XP32 and VMR7W. And CPU usage is nil for the typical 20Mbps 1080i50. 5-8% usage of an i7 for 720 material seems like no DXVA.

Again, for Vista and Windows 7, EVR should be used. Why are you using VMR9R?

I have tried Overlay, VMR7, VMR9 and EVR and it made no difference in DVBViewer. Also, I haven't seen any clear indication why to chose one over the other (except not chosing overlay that doesn't work well with Vista).

And I am happy for you that you have found a hardware accelerated codec that works for you, but I haven't found any except for the ATI codec (that really doesn't look HW accelerated, I agree).

The TS stream I receive obviously isn't all that common seeing as the support for it is limited to ffdshow, ATI codec and Divx Codec. MPC-HC codecs cannot decode the stream. It tries and gets the top of the image right, but the rest of the image is ruined. I guess 1280x720@50Hz isn't supported yet by MPC-HC. Also, I could not get the MPC-HC codec to run HW accelerated. Only the MPC-HC application can decode with HW acceleration (it also fails decoding the 1280x720@50Hz TS stream).

[Auric]

EVR was designed for Vista. I don't know if DXVA is possible with the previous renderers.

All DXVA decoders (CyberLink, ATI, MPC-HC, ArcSoft, Sonic,...) work with my system. CyberLink is the best though.

Again, if it is only that file then it is a waste of time trying to diagnose your system. Get it working with compliant sources then if it does not work you know it is just a dodgy file.

[Kraeshok]

Originally Posted by Auric

EVR was designed for Vista. I don't know if DXVA is possible with the previous renderers.

From what I've read and tested my self; EVR is the only DXVA capable renderer in Vista/W7 of the ones mentioned. Never ever have I gotten any of the others to do DXVA in Vista x64.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX...ndows_7_And_Up

[kn00tcn]

i'm gonna mention, overlay in 64bit MPC works with aero, but not 32bit MPC (on my 64bit vista)

[Galmok]

Originally Posted by Auric

Again, if it is only that file then it is a waste of time trying to diagnose your system. Get it working with compliant sources then if it does not work you know it is just a dodgy file.

Well, I am not playing a file, I am watching a live DVB stream (that can be saved as a file). That means my player options are limited (and I already bought DVBViewer). The only player that is able to play the TS stream is VLC 1.0.3. VLC plays everything (including DVB-T), but lacks a good channel manager (and other nice features that DVBViewer has).

[mikiem]

FWIW video playback, with/without hardware accell, with Avivo, can be a PITA... Here's what's going on...

1) ATI has Avivo built into the drivers, & each driver version can make or break some playback -- on a couple of ATI cards with some driver versions I've had to turn hardware accel off in Wmplayer, &/or PowerDVD, &/or the wmv checkbox in CCC, &/or in the registry for codecs like DivX, in XP, &/or Vista, &/or 7. This effected not just wmv or, in the case of PowerDVD, mpg2, but things like mjpeg avi playback (?). Further, Avivo adds video processing, which can effect performance (though not too much) & appearance. Depending on Windows version & card, many of those CCC controls are not shown in CCC by default, but have to be turned on (as in made visible) in the registry.

2) Playback normally involves Direct Show, & Windows has problems handling the multiple DS filters installed & needed. To see what I mean run Systems Internals' Process Explorer or similar while attempting or during playback. It's normal to have competing DS filters [filters that have the same function], filters that lie to Windows about what they can do, & filters that are fully or partially incompatible. Some filters, like those from &@#$%#!!! Sonic can tend to overwhelm every other, trying to take precedence over everything else. If you run GSpot on a media file, it *somewhat* illustrates the approach players use as/when they try to build a graph [assemble the chain of DS filters] -- it lists possible combos, sees if they'll connect, then sees if one combo will work. Graphstudio [File menu render media] can show the filters used, & hitting play you can judge how well that combo works. Filmerit allows you to set the priority of DS filters, which other than removal is about the only way to control which are used.

Back to Process Explorer, it appears that most players open several filters in their quest to build a graph, & [even somewhat] incompatible filters being open can cause problems & slow things down, whether they're used or not. Perhaps worse, many players &/or video apps have their own internally hard-wired preferences, & often their own filters that are not available to other Windows apps -- throws a wrench into the whole thing.

The only recourse is to remove some filters [usually breaking the software they came with], play with the priority settings, play with the registry, or simply try different players -- VLC is an excellent choice, as it tends to be self-contained. Occasionally it helps to add DS filters... With the 9.10 drivers in 7 I had to register the PowerDVD 7 audio filter from my XP install [have 7 & 8 in XP, but only 8 in win7]... otherwise I had all sorts of prob playing plain ol' DVD-spec mpg2. Didn't have that prob last month, but 2 months ago I had issues with generic avi's. As I said, a lot depends on version of ATI drivers.

You can set the default mpg2 handling in Vista/7, which can have an effect, but each alternative has their own pro's & cons. You can run the EVR renderer in XP after installing the latest .NET, which can help as well as hurt playback. Win7DSFilterTweaker can maybe do some good, but set a restore point 1st. If you want to know if the GPU's involved, use GPU-Z.

[mikiem]

PowerDVD 8/9 codecs are slower than ATI's codec... Neither ATI's, nor Cyberlinks (powerdvd's) codecs are fast enough to handle 1280x720@50Hz

I disagree FWIW... TO me it sound like you're definitely suffering some DS conflicts slowing things down. Check the forums -- PowerDVD 9 is pretty much the std for HD in many (most?), & that includes 1080 60fps.

And I am happy for you that you have found a hardware accelerated codec that works for you, but I haven't found any except for the ATI codec

My impression, & I do far more encoding than decoding/playback, is that it's the app & what you have installed in Windows that effects hardware accel more that your choice of codec. That said, the Cyberlink stuff works well with ATI, as ATI licenses Cyberlink code, & their filters are available to everything in Windows pretty much. If curious, run a trial.

The TS stream I receive obviously isn't all that common

There's tools & info over at sites like videohelp.com that might be useful.

I have tried Overlay, VMR7, VMR9 and EVR and it made no difference in DVBViewer. Also, I haven't seen any clear indication why to chose one over the other (except not chosing overlay that doesn't work well with Vista).

Vista itself doesn't have Overlay -- it was re-introduced with 7 [see Avery Lee's blog at virtualdub.org]. The choice of renderer matters when/if an app handles one better than another. 9 is generally good -- evr when it works is better.

EVR was designed for Vista. I don't know if DXVA is possible with the previous renderers.

Yes -- it is.

I am watching a live DVB stream... That means my player options are limited...

Then what you'll need to do, AFAIK anyway, is figure out which DS filters are used, & which ones you want used. You might start by looking to see which filters an app uses that works [VLC isn't a great choice there, being largely self-contained], & if DVB stream doesn't use them, try to get it to -- i.e. eliminate the competing DS filters, or reduce their merit etc. Don't forget audio handling can slow the process as much as video.

[Galmok]

I did unregister competing DS filters to make sure that I was testing the filter I wanted. But it turned out that the PDVD8/9 filters could not decode the stream even though they reported being able to. DVBViewer complained about not being able to find a suitable decoder. PowerDVD is therefore ruled out. MPC-HC codec I tested the same way. It showed severe corruptions and wasn't hardware accelerated when used as a codec (is HW accel in MPC-HC application). ffdshow works, but is much too slow. ATI decoder works, but doesn't get aspect ratio right. DivX H.264 decoder works and is fast enough. Isn't perfect image, but the best I can get (ATI is better but see previous comment about ATI).

I have checked the cpu usage of each thread in DVBViewer and it is the DS decoding that is using all the cpu power. I have uploaded my sample (53MB) TS stream to a friend of mine and he also cannot get it to show correctly in any of his media players except for VLC.

I guess that DVB-T stream is somewhat special...

I have no problems viewing downloaded H.264 files in any of my media players.

[Auric]

mikem, WMV acceleration does not exist on modern cards so don't enable it.

As you say, any default processing is easily disabled by editing certain registry entries but it is not really a performance issue so much as a quality one (i.e. if unaltered output is preferred).

Conflicting filters is not an issue with a good player such as MPC-HC.

Galmok, have you tried remuxing the TS? Perhaps it contains junk programs that are tripping up the splitters and/or decoders.

[kn00tcn]

wow all the cpu power, & it's not even 60fps 1080p

[FreeZor]

Contrary to what most believe, graphics acceleration will always remain a CPU thing, or you'll end up with rare symptoms like artifact or video running behind on the sound, the real reason for that is, even if a GPU has a much higher frequency, the cpu's are much more advanced in that technology.

You can compare it with brains, allthough our brain is about 400 times smaller than the one of a whale, we're still smarter, and that the reason why the CPU is the prefered method over the GPU aka SPU (Stupid Processing Unit)

[kn00tcn]

no i mean, i NEVER use gpu accel, but the last time i maxed out a cpu with video playback was my single core p4 or athlonxp

something is odd if a 50fps 720p video is maxing out a modern cpu

[Auric]

Originally Posted by FreeZor

Contrary to what most believe, graphics acceleration will always remain a CPU thing, or you'll end up with rare symptoms like artifact or video running behind on the sound, the real reason for that is, even if a GPU has a much higher frequency, the cpu's are much more advanced in that technology.

You can compare it with brains, allthough our brain is about 400 times smaller than the one of a whale, we're still smarter, and that the reason why the CPU is the prefered method over the GPU aka SPU (Stupid Processing Unit)

On the contrary, the GPU contains a tidgy specialized procesing unit -the UVD which is highly efficient at that task. Whereas the CPU is giant, general-purpose, and very inefficient and costly. It is only justifiable when used primarily for other tasks and indeed when multi-tasking which includes video is not important.

[Galmok]

Originally Posted by kn00tcn

no i mean, i NEVER use gpu accel, but the last time i maxed out a cpu with video playback was my single core p4 or athlonxp

something is odd if a 50fps 720p video is maxing out a modern cpu

Well, it is nearly maxing out 1 core in my Core i7 920. That leaves 3 (7 if you want to count HT) left for other work.

But this was the reason why I posted originally. I'd really like to have the decoding hardware accelerated, but have not had any luck so far. The ATI codec does not seem hardware accelerated or if it is, it is poorly done (anyway, aspect ratio isn't working well).

I have downloaded powerdvd trial and am trying to extract the H.264 codec from it (if there is any?) to see if it will work with my system. Problem is that all file names are like this _792484D8300D91141A5D51D129ED9A6B. :-P

[Auric]

Have to find it by file properties but it prolly won't work independently anway so better to just install the program. Image the OS volume first if concerned about messing it up.

[MURCer_BorG]

45 , 35 FPS in viewing video ??? and how much you need what you "think" is fast enough ?

Get real people regardless the resolution SD/HD/DVB normal frame rate is 25FPS for PAL and 30FPS for NTSC only IMAX use a frame rate of 48 or 50 FPS as I recall.

So what seems to be the issue? ATI is able to put almost double in your case be happy and enjoy.
And rembere VSYNC MUST BE ON !!!

[Auric]

Well, the point is it is not playing at full frame-rate. Renderers and splitters may report formats differently. i50 can be shown as 50fps or 25. Likewise i60 as 59.94fps or as 29.97.

[Galmok]

Well, I tried installing the full pdvd9 trial package and the h264 codec is not available for DVBViewer. I tried running regsvr32 on cl264dec.ax manually, but it just exited silently, not doing anything.

Doesn't look like the newest powerdvd can be used. The mpeg2 decoder from powerdvd is available, but isn't important to me.

I guess my best option is to hope MPC-HC gets hardware accelerated when used as an .ax and that it will get support for the stream I receive. :-/

[Galmok]

Originally Posted by MURCer_BorG

45 , 35 FPS in viewing video ??? and how much you need what you "think" is fast enough ?

Get real people regardless the resolution SD/HD/DVB normal frame rate is 25FPS for PAL and 30FPS for NTSC only IMAX use a frame rate of 48 or 50 FPS as I recall.

So what seems to be the issue? ATI is able to put almost double in your case be happy and enjoy.
And rembere VSYNC MUST BE ON !!!

Well, the renderer reports lost frames when running at below 50 fps. This clearly indicates that the DVB-T HD stream is operating at 50 fps. DVBViewer reports the stream to be 1280x720 at 50 fps. The channel is called "DR HD" and is broadcast in Denmark. 720p/50 the format seems to be called.

[MURCer_BorG]

well it look like the standards are going mad :
http://www.ebu.ch/en/technical/trev/...editorial.html