New 3870 needs some refresh rate forcing... how to do it?

[Scott]

Just installed Vista Ultimate SP1 x64 today along with the 8.3 drivers only with no CCC and ATT beta 1127 (released today, Ray's bangin' on his new 3870!). I used the refresh lock feature in ATT and it still will not force maximum possible (and workable) rates ingame so I get 60Hz instead. Any other ideas?

[Scott]

WTF, nobody games in dx10 in Vista x64!!?

[cvearl]

Is there a DXDIAG in Vista?

From there I go to the HELP tab and there is an override in there. DX9 anyway.

C.

[Scott]

Here's Vista's dxdiag, it's a little different now....

[TV Addict#2]

was dx10.1 released as well,my DDI version is at 10 with sp1
DDI changed to 10.1 with the change from 8.2 to 8.3 drivers

[Scott]

Try this... http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

[TV Addict#2]

thanks,I had installed the march dx update but was still on 8.2 drivers,the 8.3's updated the values of interest
for the refresh issue have you tried rivatuner

[cvearl]

FYI...

Even if an LCD says it's 75Hz capable, that does not mean at the native res necessarily...

My 931C and 922 Samsungs are listed as 75Hz (for super fast gaming blah bla hblah) and at 1680x1024 on the 22" and 1280x1024 on the 19", it is at 60Hz no matter what.

Drop it to lower resses and suddenly 75Hz is an option.

With nVidia and ATI cards forced, the on screen menu still reports a 60Hz refresh.

LCD's refresh at a factory set rate regardless of anything. To the best of my knowledge.

C.

[Skinner]

Get the same issue in Crysis and dx10, 60 hz set in stone. But I'm runnin Cuban's dx9 VH config right now and it's even faster and refresforce works

[cvearl]

Originally Posted by Skinner

Get the same issue in Crysis and dx10, 60 hz set in stone. But I'm runnin Cuban's dx9 VH config right now and it's even faster and refresforce works

LCD or CRT?

C.

[DarkSyde]

Easiest thing is to get an LCD monitor and it wont even matter anymore

[Skinner]

Originally Posted by cvearl

LCD or CRT?

C.

CRT.

[felikx]

Originally Posted by DarkSyde

Easiest thing is to get an LCD monitor and it wont even matter anymore

Whoa there, pal. It won't matter? You'll never ever have more than 60 frames per second. I guess if you wanna accept the bottom of the barrel, then sure.

[cvearl]

Originally Posted by felikx

Whoa there, pal. It won't matter? You'll never ever have more than 60 frames per second. I guess if you wanna accept the bottom of the barrel, then sure.

It's about preference...

I have a 19" Sony Trinitron that does 85Hz at 1600x1200. I have a 22" Wide Screen LCD that does 60Hz at 1680x1050. I prefer the LCD. I am using the CRT right now as I have the LCD in for replacement (warranty issue) and I would never go back to the CRT again.

I do miss 85Hz gaming but not enough to negate the sharpness and contrast my LCD brings.

C.

[Scott]

So yeah. As much as I appreciate useful input, maybe we can find me a way of getting this to work instead of spending 300 more of my dollars.


Update: Fresh install of Vista again today and still the same problem. This time I used CCC instead of ATT. Crysis will force 60Hz in dx10 at 1280x960. Funny thing though, 1152x864 is 70Hz, 800x600 is 56Hz and everything else is 60Hz. All resolutions stick to their set refreshes per CCC when using dx9 for Crysis or any other dx9 game.

[TV Addict#2]

I have a mitsubishi 2070sb crt that will do 2048x1536@85 refresh and notice no lag difference between it and the hp lp - 3065 at 60 refresh hooked to the same rig

[Scott]

Originally Posted by TV Addict#2

I have a mitsubishi 2070sb crt that will do 2048x1536@85 refresh and notice no lag difference between it and the hp lp - 3065 at 60 refresh hooked to the same rig

OK, so that helps with my refresh rates how?

[TV Addict#2]

you have no reason to trust my opinion but maybe as another recommendation of this not being a factor to be concerned with
good luck with your refresh needs

[Scott]

I don't understand. I shouldn't be concerned with 60Hz refresh?

[cvearl]

Originally Posted by felikx

Whoa there, pal. It won't matter? You'll never ever have more than 60 frames per second. I guess if you wanna accept the bottom of the barrel, then sure.

Are you aware that 60Hz on an LCD is not the same as 60Hz on a CRT?

LCD's only update the pixels that changed when they change at 60 times a second.

CRT's need more than 60 due to the way that they draw. Line by line basically and anything below 72Hz creates flicker.

That flicker is not present on LCD's even with 60Hz. I used to really care about 85Hz gaming. Honestly I can't logically back it up. If LCD's get to go beyond 60Hz? Great. But it is unlikely that it is needed. Really.

FYI... The Samsung 931C LCD was named the official monitor of the World Cyber Games 2006.

There is a website out there if I could ever find it again that measured the whole FPS competative edge of 75Hz versus 60 Hz and only the world's most competative top 5 Counterstrike players could benefit as the difference in target recognition was a split second. If that was what you are driving at. Ping was more important by a long shot in the lan environment. 60Hz does the trick.

C.

[felikx]

Originally Posted by cvearl

Are you aware that 60Hz on an LCD is not the same as 60Hz on a CRT?

LCD's only update the pixels that changed when they change at 60 times a second.

CRT's need more than 60 due to the way that they draw. Line by line basically and anything below 72Hz creates flicker.

That flicker is not present on LCD's even with 60Hz. I used to really care about 85Hz gaming. Honestly I can't logically back it up. If LCD's get to go beyond 60Hz? Great. But it is unlikely that it is needed. Really.

FYI... The Samsung 931C LCD was named the official monitor of the World Cyber Games 2006.

There is a website out there if I could ever find it again that measured the whole FPS competative edge of 75Hz versus 60 Hz and only the world's most competative top 5 Counterstrike players could benefit as the difference in target recognition was a split second. If that was what you are driving at. Ping was more important by a long shot in the lan environment. 60Hz does the trick.

C.

Too bad that the video card still sends the LCD the same signal as the CRT - therefore making the LCD update it's visual information the exact same way as a CRT does. Of course, the physical display process is different, but you end up with the same thing on the screen. Which is a screen updated 60 times a second. Which is nowhere enough to feel solid and smooth.

Go put a CRT at 120hz beside your LCD (any LCD) at 60hz (or even 75h, if the LCD supports it), turn off vsync and go play a game where you get high framerates. Now look at, say, the edge of a wall in the game and strafe back and forth. Oh, sorry! Did I ruin your LCD experience? My bad. Now join the growing legion of people searching for a used high end widescreen CRT.

[cvearl]

Originally Posted by felikx

Too bad that the video card still sends the LCD the same signal as the CRT - therefore making the LCD update it's visual information the exact same way as a CRT does. Of course, the physical display process is different, but you end up with the same thing on the screen. Which is a screen updated 60 times a second. Which is nowhere enough to feel solid and smooth.

Go put a CRT at 120hz beside your LCD (any LCD) at 60hz (or even 75h, if the LCD supports it), turn off vsync and go play a game where you get high framerates. Now look at, say, the edge of a wall in the game and strafe back and forth. Oh, sorry! Did I ruin your LCD experience? My bad. Now join the growing legion of people searching for a used high end widescreen CRT.

Dude. I'm telling you..

I have a 19" Sony Trinitron that I play 1280x1024 85Hz and this Samsung 1680x1050 LCD at 60Hz. I never EVER play with vsync disabled EVER. So forget that. With vSync, I would chose the LCD every single last time. I play CS:S and many other on line games as well that benefit from higher framerates. I am sorry. But CRT's are all but done. It's time to move on.

does 85Hz (or 120Hz if you think you can tell 85 to 120) make it look a bit smoother? Yes. Enough to give a crap? no. At least not for me.

And no. Digital and Analogue signals are different. My LCD has DVI and so does my card. The signal is not the same.

Damn I wish I had that link handy but I lost it. This has been tested to oblivion and really 99% of people could not see a difference. If you can. Fine. Keep your CRT. I kept mine until less than a year ago. So I know what you are saying.

After 2 nights I was unable to go back to my trinitron. Or my Panasonic CRT's But they are side by side if I ever care enough to double check.

Comparing a decent LCD to a decent CRT is like comparing SVHS to DVD. There are plusses and minuses I guess but the LCD wins.

C.

[Scott]

Well, here's my ticket with EA about Crysis DX10 and it's low CRT refresh:

Customer
03/15/2008 09:51 AM

I'm using ATI 3870 card with latest 8.3 cat drivers, fresh install of Vista SP1 x64 Ultimate, Dell P991 CRT monitor (good in device manager), Crysis patched to 1.2

The game will not play in fullscreen with anything higher than a 60Hz vertical refresh rate on the monitor. Higher refreshes work fine in dx9 aps and on the desktop. Crysis 32 and 64 bit both are stuck at 60Hz.

I need to be able to play this game at higher than 60Hz refresh rates, how can I do that?


Response (Christened P)
03/16/2008 12:43 AM

Hello!

Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts Technical Support. I apologize for the difficulty you're having with Crysis.

Were you able to play the game without any errors before? Have you had any changes made to your computer lately? What troubleshooting steps have you tried so far?

This can be caused by a few different things, but is usually linked to programs running in the background that conflict with the game, or miscommunication between the game and your video and/or sound card. If you are unsure on how to end all of the background tasks, please click on the link listed below:
http://support.ea.com/cgi-bin/ea.cfg...ound_tasks.php

Certain temporary files can conflict with game files during gameplay. You can empty the temporary file folders; follow this link for instructions: http://support.ea.com/cgi-bin/ea.cfg...?p_faqid=10705

If the issue persists, please send a reply to this email with your updated Dxdiag.txt file so that we can look into this issue further.

To do this:

· Go to Start -> Run.
· In the box, type the following: dxdiag
· Click "OK"
· Click the "Save All Information" button on the first screen of the application.
· Then on top of the "Save As" box that pops up, select Desktop (if it's not set to save there already), then click Save.
· Finally, attach the dxdiag.txt to your email reply.

If you have Windows Vista and do not have a Run selection:

Right click on the menu bar and select Properties.
Click on the Start Menu tab.
Click on the Customize button.
In the upper window scroll down until you see Run command.
Click this check box and click Ok.
Click Start.
Click Run.
Type dxdiag in the available text field, and press OK.

After we receive this file we can continue troubleshooting the issues at hand and hopefully come to a solution.

Should you require further assistance about this or any Electronic Arts games in the future please visit our website and review our extensive Self Help knowledgebase (http://support.ea.com).

Sincerely,
Chris P.
EA Technical Support


Customer
03/16/2008 09:09 AM

As stated in the first communication, this is a fresh install of Vista (full, not upgrade) with SP1. No other programs have been installed to auto-start with Windows. I was waiting until I got a dx10 video card before taking the leap to Vista and Crysis so this is my first time with both of those together, I never installed Crysis before this first time.

dxdiag log has been included.

I have found that Crysis will run at the proper refresh rates when I force dx9 in the game, it's only when attempting dx10 that I get a lower refresh rate at the same resolution that runs fine in dx9.


Response (EA Tech Jessico U.)
03/17/2008 05:57 AM

Hello,

Thank you for contacting us here at Electronic Arts Technical Support. I'm sorry you are still having video refresh rate issues with the Crysis game.

What other troubleshooting procedures have you tried so far to address the issue?

This could be caused by something conflicting with the continued running of the game. This conflict can be another program running in the background.

End your background tasks. Closing down all unnecessary background applications will help prevent the issue as well. Press CTRL+SHIFT+ESC to pull the task manager or You can also right click on the task bar to pull up the task manager as well.

Click on the Applications tab to view the list of active programs.
Click on any program listed in this window and select the End Task button.
Repeat the previous instructions until all programs have been closed.
Follow these steps to close unnecessary processes:
Click on the Processes tab to view the list of active processes.
Click in the User Name column header to organize the processes by login.
Click on any program listed next to your Windows login, other than EXPLORER.EXE and TASKMGR.EXE, then select the End Process button.
Warning : Do not close any processes running under SYSTEM, LOCAL SERVICE, or NETWORK SERVICE.
Repeat the previous instructions until all programs associated to your Windows Login are closed except for the following two:
TASKMGR.EXE
EXPLORER.EXE

Next try clearing your Crysis configuration folder to allow the game to refresh your settings.

To do this:

1. Open Documents - > My Games.
2. Right-click on the Crysis folder and choose Delete.

I hope this helps.

Should you require further assistance about this or any Electronic Arts games in the future please visit our website and review our extensive Self Help knowledgebase http://support.ea.com/.

Jessie U.
Electronics Arts Technical Support


Customer
03/23/2008 05:30 PM

OK, I tried Jessie's instructions, followed them to the letter. Still 60Hz refresh at 1280x960 resolution.

What I found interesting though is that with Crysis using dx10 at 1152x864 res I got 70Hz, at 800x600 I got 56Hz and all other resolutions were 60Hz. Crysis while running in dx9 and desktop resolutions put the refresh rates at 85 or 100 as set in the ATI CCC.

I formatted the drive and reinstalled Vista from scratch. Chipset, NIC, sound and video drivers only (all certified). Installed Crysis then patch 1.2 and I'm exactly where I was before.


Response (EA Tech Jessico U.)
03/24/2008 01:07 AM

Hello,

I'm sorry to know that you are still having issues with the Crysis game. Have you tried 1078 x 768 (32 bit) (60 Hz)?

We would suggest patching the game with the latest hotfix. Please click on link below to download the patch v.1.2.1

English Version:

http://www.crymod.com/filebase.php?fileid=1194

I hope this will help.

Should you require further assistance about this or any Electronic Arts games in the future please visit our website and review our extensive Self Help knowledgebase http://support.ea.com/.

Jessie U.
Electronics Arts Technical Support


Customer
03/24/2008 07:12 AM

1024x768 also gets 60Hz per my last note. The 1.2.1 hotfix has been installed now and also didn't help.


Response (EA Tech Jessico U.)
03/24/2008 08:47 AM

Hello,

Thank you for the quick response this will help us address your issue faster. Since the issue persists please create a new admin account on your Windows Vista. You'd have to uninstall the game using the old administrator account then reinstall the game using the new one.

1. Click Start and click Control Panel.
2. Click User Accounts and Family Safety.
3. Under User Accounts, click Add or remove user accounts.
4. Click Create a new account.
5. Type in the account name. Select the account type: Standard or Administrator.
6. Click Create Account.
7. Select the account you just created. Click Create a password.
8. Type in a password for the user account and an option password hint.
9. Click Create password.

You will now be able to log on to the computer using the account name and password you specified.

I hope this helps.

Should you require further assistance about this or any Electronic Arts games in the future please visit our website and review our extensive Self Help knowledgebase http://support.ea.com/.

Jessie U.
Electronics Arts Technical Support


Customer
03/24/2008 09:07 PM

o.O

What in the world are you people trying to foist on me?

Read carefully.... Vista with service pack 1 was installed (A SECOND TIME) on a freshly formatted partition. Certified drivers were installed for all appropriate hardware then Crysis was installed and patched to 1.2 then to 1.2.1

How much more FRESH could these installs get, and now you want me to uninstall it under the current user to install again under another profile. WHY!?

How much longer are you going to fool around with this "support"? Fix the issue or admit that it's unfixably broke and quit wasting my time. Thank you.


Response (EA Tech Jessico U.)
03/25/2008 12:55 AM

Hello,

I would like to apologize for the inconvenience. Due to the nature of your issue, more time is required for investigation. I apologize for any prolonged delays this might cause, but please rest assured that we are trying to handle your issue in a timely manner. During this time, you may still update your incident with additional information that might help us resolve your issue without causing any additional delay. To update your incident click the link above that says, to view or update your question from our support site, click here.

Should you require further assistance about this or any Electronic Arts games in the future please visit our website and review our extensive Self Help knowledgebase http://support.ea.com/.

Jessie U.
Electronics Arts Technical Support


Customer
03/25/2008 06:37 AM

Jessie, I have to imagine that somewhere at EA there are systems that are used to playtest Crysis. Can you folks get this game to run in dx10 with high refresh rates on a CRT monitor?


Response (EA Tech Ben M)
03/26/2008 12:28 PM

Hello,

This is Electronic Arts Technical Support.

This game should achieve higher resolutions at higher refresh rate monitors. We do not have a readily available ATI HD 3800, but we do have a high end Directx 10 video card. We are able to run the game at full screen resolutions of 1920x1020 and 1600x1200 using a refresh rate of 75hz on a 19" CRT monitor. I tried to run it at higher refresh rates but the monitor is unable to handle it. I have confirmed this with the monitors documentation that such refresh rates works with lower resolutions. I would suggest you check the documentation of your monitor as well and look for a table that least down supported resolution per refresh rates.

I would admit that the new HD 3800 was not tested with the game as it is relatively newer and we cannot guarantee the game's performance, but it should be able to handle such demands. One thing you may want to try is to check for Vista hotfixes or just download Vista SP1 > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...vista/sp1.mspx.

Do let me know how it turns out with the Windows update.

Ben M.
Technical Support (http://support.ea.com)
Electronic Arts (http://www.ea.com)


Customer
03/26/2008 01:22 PM

Ben, thanks for the response. You're a busy guy and didn't have a chance to read through this ticket I guess. I have only tried Crysis with Vista SP1 installed, never without. My monitor achieves 85Hz for windows desktop and dx9 games (including Crysis forced to dx9) at resolutions up to 1280x960, it is only with Crysis in dx10 that I cannot get better than 60Hz at 1280x960. Now the monitor is capable of 1600x1200 @75Hz but that's too much strain on the system to get playable framerates so that's why I play at 1280x960.

Bioshock is the only other dx10 game that I own and it is able to go 85Hz at 1280x960 in dx10 so I figure this problem I'm having is specific to Crysis.


Response (EA Tech Ben M)
03/26/2008 02:47 PM

Hello,

This is Electronic Arts Technical Support.

Have you tried 1280x1024 @ 75hz? I check the documentation for P991 and you may be able to run the game at DX10 with display 1280x1024 @ 75hz . I tried 1280x960 @ 75hz and 72hz of which i also get the same problem. If that still fails, try getting hold of a beta driver from ATI for your video card and see if that makes any difference. You can always rollback the driver to a certified one later on. Let me know how it turns out.

Ben M.
Technical Support (http://support.ea.com)
Electronic Arts (http://www.ea.com)


Customer
03/26/2008 05:25 PM

60Hz at 1280x1024

There are no beta drivers that I'm aware of for ATi, the cat8.3 that I'm using now were released a couple of weeks ago.


Response (EA Tech Ben M)
03/27/2008 10:08 AM

Hello,

I am moving this case to a higher support tier. Due to the nature of your issue, more time is required for investigation. I apologize for any prolonged delays this might cause, but please rest assured that we are trying to handle your issue in a timely manner. During this time, you may still update your incident with additional information that might help us resolve your issue without causing any additional delay. To update your incident click the link above that says, to view or update your question from our support site, click here > http://Support.ea.com.

Thank you for your continued patience.

Ben M.
Technical Support (http://support.ea.com)
Electronic Arts (http://www.ea.com)


Response (Samuel S)
04/03/2008 06:04 PM

Hi,

Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts Customer Support.

Unfortunately we do not provide hardware support for monitors. Please refer to the documentation or manufacturer's website regarding you specific monitor and video card installation. We do not guarantee that our game will run at a specific refresh rate or resolution as each hardware profile is different and may or may not support specific configurations.

If you need additional assistance or have further questions please reply to this email or visit our self help knowledge base at http://support.ea.com

Thank you,
Samuel
Senior Representative
Electronic Arts Customer Support


Customer
04/03/2008 06:14 PM

Considering the monitor itself is not the problem, but your game is, then I can't see why you won't continue to support this issue. Clearly you can see that my monitor and other hardware are capable of the refresh rate I am seeking and it's only when I use your program that I cannot get the same refresh from my hardware.

My hardware is not what I need support with because it works fine. I want support for your software which is not properly telling my hardware what to do.


Response (Samuel S)
04/03/2008 06:20 PM

Hi,

Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts Customer Support.

Again, we do not provide support regarding refresh rates on monitors. We ask that you check you hardware settings and documentation to further troubleshoot this issue.

If you need additional assistance or have further questions please reply to this email or visit our self help knowledge base at http://support.ea.com

Thank you,
Samuel
Senior Representative
Electronic Arts Customer Support


... and there you have it. EA's solution to the problem.