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Old Jul 5, 2005, 10:57 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skynet
If you are being serious, you are totally clueless. If you're not, the funny is not present.

Well, it can be used for other insecure purposes too, I suppose.

http://linuxreviews.org/news/Security_Advisories/

Now, before you start waving your penguin banner and putting on your beak mask, ALL Network Operating Systems are Insecure.
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Old Jul 5, 2005, 11:18 AM   #212
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Thats right anything that is under the sun as far as programs go have flaws and problems but only the Microsoft ones will be talked about LOLOL
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Old Jul 5, 2005, 02:52 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermit_The_Frog
Thats right anything that is under the sun as far as programs go have flaws and problems but only the Microsoft ones will be talked about LOLOL

As linux gains in popularity, there will be many more problems found.

It is like saying Novell is more secure...it only is more secure because the 4 people still using it are not worth attacking.

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Old Jul 5, 2005, 04:39 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage
As linux gains in popularity, there will be many more problems found.
I think that's true but the difference will be how many of these problems are identified by contributors to the linux community instead of outsiders and potential exploiters and how quickly they are fixed.
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Old Jul 5, 2005, 04:45 PM   #215
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Thats all fine but in the real world in a working office linux is still a long way from what people need and can use, I think it is great that it is there for those that can use it, but when you need to constantly put down something else its the sure way of letting the whole world know who really is on top and better.
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Old Jul 5, 2005, 06:07 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermit_The_Frog
Thats all fine but in the real world in a working office linux is still a long way from what people need and can use, I think it is great that it is there for those that can use it, but when you need to constantly put down something else its the sure way of letting the whole world know who really is on top and better.
What does any of that have to do with security? (guess I shouldn't complain since the thread is already way OT)
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Old Jul 5, 2005, 07:18 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
I think that's true but the difference will be how many of these problems are identified by contributors to the linux community instead of outsiders and potential exploiters and how quickly they are fixed.
What does any of that have to do with the 7800GTX vs Nothing ?

Guess its off topic so I wont complain .
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Old Jul 5, 2005, 07:23 PM   #218
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Man this thread got derailed pretty quick.




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Old Jul 6, 2005, 05:03 AM   #219
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Angry Hi...

I am with nvidia for 1 year now and very happy But i read there is no 7800 xt version coming out for agp, so i will leave the dark side and waiting for the r520 to go with ati again!!!!. Ati cares costumers wishes, nvidia not.. **** nvidia management!

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Old Jul 6, 2005, 07:16 AM   #220
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In the near future it will be Radeon XXXXX(R5xx)/Xbox 360 versus nothing . Nvidia took the easy route this time with the 11 micron process, ATI has been advancing faster on new processes for the last two years. If the R520 chip comes out in September, the 7800GTX may just end up being a short period of time when Nvidia had the lead. Now the question for me will be will ATI have the R520 out when I build my next system?????
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Old Jul 6, 2005, 07:19 AM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermit_The_Frog
What does any of that have to do with the 7800GTX vs Nothing ?

Guess its off topic so I wont complain .
Hey I was just responding to your response to my response to someone else's response to another response to some dude's response to an off-topic post! But your response had nothing to do with the off-topic that we were on - so you kinda went off-off-topic
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Old Jul 6, 2005, 09:23 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noko
In the near future it will be Radeon XXXXX(R5xx)/Xbox 360 versus nothing . Nvidia took the easy route this time with the 11 micron process, ATI has been advancing faster on new processes for the last two years. If the R520 chip comes out in September, the 7800GTX may just end up being a short period of time when Nvidia had the lead. Now the question for me will be will ATI have the R520 out when I build my next system?????
to think Nvidia was going 0.11 micron and that's it simply is dumb. RSX will be 0.09 micron. Their mainstream will be on 0.09 micron. Their next high end GPU ("Ultra") will be 0.09micron and more pipes or more core clock or it will be on 0.11 micron with more core clock.
To think the GF7800GTX is everything simply is dumb. Why should they have called it GTX instead of Ultra.
Really if ATI would think and behave like most of the fanboys on several forums they would go right into bancruptcy
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Old Jul 6, 2005, 11:48 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeNukem
Really if ATI would think and behave like most of the fanboys on several forums they would go right into bancruptcy
And that's why ignorant fanboys don't run multi-million dollar companies
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Old Jul 6, 2005, 12:41 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamz
I am with nvidia for 1 year now and very happy But i read there is no 7800 xt version coming out for agp, so i will leave the dark side and waiting for the r520 to go with ati again!!!!. Ati cares costumers wishes, nvidia not.. **** nvidia management!

c u

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Will there be a AGP version? how long will this take?
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Old Jul 6, 2005, 02:26 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinibwoy
And that's why ignorant fanboys don't run multi-million dollar companies
Aaaaahahahahahahaha!!!!

Oh that was sweet nectar, trini. Thank you.
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Old Jul 6, 2005, 03:24 PM   #226
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I'm ain't atifan and nvidiafan...then I can buy 7800 Ultra and R520 XT PE to combine super uber card. but it will gotta ridiculous card are doesn't dream come true.

P.S my grammar look bad?
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Old Jul 6, 2005, 07:12 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeNukem
to think Nvidia was going 0.11 micron and that's it simply is dumb. RSX will be 0.09 micron. Their mainstream will be on 0.09 micron. Their next high end GPU ("Ultra") will be 0.09micron and more pipes or more core clock or it will be on 0.11 micron with more core clock.
To think the GF7800GTX is everything simply is dumb. Why should they have called it GTX instead of Ultra.
Really if ATI would think and behave like most of the fanboys on several forums they would go right into bancruptcy
Of course Nvidia will go to .09 micron, but when?

I am quite sure ATI had planned the R520 to be out at this time but as everyone knows it isn't. If nVidia really had anything to compete against the R520 (yes I think the R520 will whoop and kick some, kindly, the competition) it would be out, at least some rumours of it would likely be around. The first hand has been delt and Nvidia got lucky so to speak, next round we will see.
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Old Jul 6, 2005, 07:21 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noko
If nVidia really had anything to compete against the R520.
How about you ask that question after we see what r520 can do? You're right in a way though - Nvidia doesn't have anything to compete with the hopes, dreams and wishes of a lot of people right now.
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Old Jul 6, 2005, 07:52 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noko
Of course Nvidia will go to .09 micron, but when?

I am quite sure ATI had planned the R520 to be out at this time but as everyone knows it isn't. If nVidia really had anything to compete against the R520 (yes I think the R520 will whoop and kick some, kindly, the competition) it would be out, at least some rumours of it would likely be around. The first hand has been delt and Nvidia got lucky so to speak, next round we will see.
It probably really wasn't luck, nV and ATi probably wanted to double the performance of the last generation, and will double it. r520 really needs alot more work since they have been neglecting additions for a long time to the r300 core. nV has been doing it slowy and steadily starting with the screwed up fx line.

Wondering maybe the r520 is a 16x2 varient. At .13 microns, the fx was a 4x2 and had yield issues and very hard to produce since transistor density is increased in this approach, just a thought.
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Old Jul 6, 2005, 07:57 PM   #230
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Until CPU's catch up a bit it's really all about the extra features at this point to me. Even last gen's cards are pretty much CPU limited unless you game at 1600x1200 with AA/AF or above.

I really don't care if I get 150FPs or 140FPS in a game do you??

Nvidia's new AA modes are nice and I suspect ATI will have some cool things coming too. good time to wait things out a bit.
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Old Jul 6, 2005, 08:09 PM   #231
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ATI got a good taste of being the badest fastest kid in town, I still think they have that taste left over from the R300 era. R520 in short will be a killer, that is if yields are good.
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Old Jul 7, 2005, 02:44 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kombatant
Comparing the previous gen X800 with the next gen 7800? I wouldn't do that.
I would. You know why?

Cause that is what is available right now from both companies.

The X850 XT-PE is the fastest card ATI has on the shelves, and the 7800 GTX is the fastest card NVIDIA has on the shelves. So they are comparable because they represent the best of what both companies have to offer, they are both in the same market category.
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Old Jul 7, 2005, 09:11 AM   #233
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Exactly the fact that ATI has nothing new to offer right now is their own doing they can always sell more by dropping prices and making the Nvidia card seem expensive but if people do the math if they want a killer card and are gonna spend cash , then the Nvidia card is what is hot! And anyways ATI will bring out someing in a few monthes and then they will say hey ours is faster lol and all the ATI fanatics will see look look we are in the lead again ! And then Nvidiots will fight back there will be death bloodshed , mangled bodies all over the internet as the neverending war goes on !!!!!!!!

Ok so now back to reality folks.
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Old Jul 7, 2005, 11:17 PM   #234
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Reality is, if, and only if ATI straightens out the R520 problems, Nvidia will not have a GPU in the near future to compete with it. From a certain prospective, Nvidia looks to be the one going to behind in a great number of things, that is on the graphics front.

Another possiblity, which I hope isn't the outcome of this delay, is ATI degrades the specs of the R520 from their dream. As in downgrading the number of pipes or speed in order to get this baby out. Time will tell.
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Old Jul 8, 2005, 01:49 AM   #235
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Right so you think Nvidia will all of a sudden out of no where cease to work on anything that could match or surpass the so called end of all cards the best that can ever be produced R520 ? Yeah ok thats called dreaming , get real Nvidia will keep at whatever and in 2012 tell me what card Nvidia will have on the market? What sorry did you say you have no idea yes thats what I thought lol , man do you people believe the stuff you spew out? Its like oh ATI will have the best ever card and Nvidia is dead now they will never match bla bla , come on get real both companies will keep putting out cards and each time its a little better then the last a little bit faster and it just keeps going.. there is no end there is no the best its all the same year after year thats reality .
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Old Jul 8, 2005, 04:13 AM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noko
Reality is, if, and only if ATI straightens out the R520 problems, Nvidia will not have a GPU in the near future to compete with it. From a certain prospective, Nvidia looks to be the one going to behind in a great number of things, that is on the graphics front.
Realitycheck

Normally technology evolves at around the same speed for both IHVs, they normally deliever hardware capable of performing on almost the same level because that's the way how technology advances.

Even if it was anyhow possible to design a 48 pipelines card already today, it would not be feasible to do so because the current state of progress is not ready for it technology-wise as also money-wise. No gamer would be able to afford a 48 pipe card today and that's why we won't see a 48 pipe card for a long time.

As I said before, both IHVs are technology seen limited in the same way but sometimes one IHV thinks to know better and misjudges the situation: It happened with nvidia and the nv30 and it is currently happening with ATI and the R520.

32 pipelines is a reality pretty soon but unfortunately not as fast as ATI could have hoped for. This time nvidia recognized the situation and decided to get a card out of the door which is at the same time next-generation (2x the speed of the 6800U, transparent AA, core at different clockspeed to save power and reduce heat) and easy enough to manufacture before trying to get 90nm part with 32 pipes out of the door eventhough they are also currently working on that.

ATI however decided to risk way too much and now has to deal with that decision made 1-2 years ago. If ATI knew what would happen they surely also would have first delievered an 110nm based R520 card will 24 pipes and kept the 90nm 32 pipes part for when the time is ready. Unfortunately it's too late for that now.

As you can see, designing new architectures is not always about performance, features and technology but more often about correctly judging when a given a technology is ready at what date. Fortunately for nvidia, this time, their prediction was more realistic then ATI's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noko
Another possiblity, which I hope isn't the outcome of this delay, is ATI degrades the specs of the R520 from their dream. As in downgrading the number of pipes or speed in order to get this baby out. Time will tell.
AFAIK, this R520 downgrade already started and initially we won't see a 32 pipelines R520, at least not for the next few months and running at 500+ MHz speeds.
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Old Jul 8, 2005, 04:31 AM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
I would. You know why?

Cause that is what is available right now from both companies.

The X850 XT-PE is the fastest card ATI has on the shelves, and the 7800 GTX is the fastest card NVIDIA has on the shelves. So they are comparable because they represent the best of what both companies have to offer, they are both in the same market category.
We can agree to disagree then... I would never compare the 7800GTX to a previous-gen card; it wins by default as far as I am concerned Same as I never compared the 6800Ultra to the 9800XT when it was announced really, same with the 9700 compared to the GF4. Yes, you need to see benchmarks in order to grasp how much better it is than the previous generation, but putting them in the same league? Nope, I wouldn't do that. You are talking by terms of what's out there today, I am talking more from a technological point of view.

Oh, and people, please don't derail the thread again.
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Old Jul 9, 2005, 12:48 AM   #238
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Time will tell who is more right. I am saying Nvidia will be in the hot seat on the top end for a very long period of time. Now I wouldn't compair a 7800GTX to a R520 either .
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Old Jul 9, 2005, 02:48 AM   #239
BARNEY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
I would. You know why?

Cause that is what is available right now from both companies.

The X850 XT-PE is the fastest card ATI has on the shelves, and the 7800 GTX is the fastest card NVIDIA has on the shelves. So they are comparable because they represent the best of what both companies have to offer, they are both in the same market category.
Exactly what i think. There is no "generation vs. generation" anymore. When a company basically leapfrogs the competition by that much and the other company can't mach it that that's it - the other company won (for the time being) IMO. It's not "just" that nVIDA leapfrogged ATI, but they did it across the board nearly. 6600GT proves that with SM 3.0 support and by being the better alternative to the 9800P. That said ...though i have owned ATI for quite some time i think ATI cards are generally "smoother" and better engineered as far as heat goes. ATI's R520 can have SM3.0 support but that alone won't take nVIDA off the throne. it would take a card that soundly defeated the 7800 Ultra (not GTX) and....could be more efficiently harness more power than SLI setups ...AND have lower end single card that can compete with nVIDA's cards with SM 3.0 as well. Not just compete, but have SM3.0 and better frame rates.

Personally i see the R520 besting the 7800GTX, then itself being bested by the 7800 Ultra, and nVIDA having the edge with SLI for years to come. I really don't think ATI stands a chance with crossfire. Esssentially i think ATI should go for the best single card solution and always keep it there ...always be threatening the top SLI setups. If they can do that ... AND offer mid-end cards that have a better price point and better quality (IQ) and better driver supportand AGP versions (at least for a while) i think ATI ...though not being able to compete with dual VGA setups (SLI-Crossfie) will have the overall edge. I think ATI simply got caught playing nVIDA's game nVIDA's way. ATI needs to change the rules of the game because they will not be able to compete with nVIDA IMO with ATI's crssfire, because that also hinges on ATI putting out boards that are as fast, as reliable, as overclockable and in enough quantity to make a difference, and with enough mainboard makers willing to put out an ATI chipset board that would handle crossfite. I say change the game ATI - that way you will force nVIDA to put out complex, expensive SLI setups just to be able to compete with you're fastest single card solution that will work on any motherboard. Also - ATI has nice AIW products. This could be expanded to HDTV-Tuner support right on the board along with the AIW tuner. It's my general feeling that if ATI tries to promote crossfire cards and crossfire boards - nVIDA will burn thier arse. Go for the single fast card with AIW-HDTV options with more features and better price points.
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Old Jul 9, 2005, 01:27 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noko
Now I wouldn't compair a 7800GTX to a R520 either .
I wouldn't compare them too but i would compare what is comming from Nvidia with R520. And you will be very surprised because there is something comming.

Your arguments are based on the fact that Nvidia hasnt' started with 0.09 micron technology.
I can tell you they have and they have been doing that for some time already. The deal with sony is forcing them to do so and unlike R520 and R500, GeForce7800GTX will have a lot in common with RSX. In fact they are almost identical with the exception of the cell interface and the manufacturing process. The last one won't be a difference at year end anymore.
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