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-   -   can you spot a pentile display with your naked eye? I can't (http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33988851)

aviphysics Apr 10, 2012 02:58 PM

can you spot a pentile display with your naked eye? I can't
 
After just reading a review that devoted a full six paragraphs to berating the One S for it's pentile display I stared as hard as I could at my Nexus S looking for the fringes and other artifacts the review describes.

I concluded that there is no way I can see what they are talking about. Can you?

http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/2/291...c-one-s-review
Quote:

Most icons on the One S exhibit a fine sliver of green subpixels on their left edge and a similarly slender string of red subpixels on the right. Admittedly, you’ll have to look closely to spot these inaccuracies, but once you do, they’ll be impossible to unsee. It’s the same thing as noticing you can hear a weather presenter’s intakes of breath — once you’re aware of it, the only thing you’ll be paying attention to is his next breath, not what he has to say.
I also concluded that the writer has a strange fixation with the breath of his whether man.

edit: forgot to add pool :p Oh well.

Elysian Apr 10, 2012 03:01 PM

I can when it's not 720p like the Galaxy Nexus, although the Nexus does have the indicators of pentile when you move from looking straight on, ie the green tint.

aviphysics Apr 10, 2012 03:04 PM

I think I can just barely make out the red pixels of the Google Mail icon but it hurts my eyes to focus that close. Bad eyesight FTW.

Sazar Apr 10, 2012 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aviphysics (Post 1336894198)
After just reading a review that devoted a full six paragraphs to berating the One S for it's pentile display I stared as hard as I could at my Nexus S looking for the fringes and other artifacts the review describes.

I concluded that there is no way I can see what they are talking about. Can you?

http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/2/291...c-one-s-review
I also concluded that the writer has a strange fixation with the breath of his whether man.

edit: forgot to add pool :p Oh well.

Some people are just fixated with crap like that. They will use the smallest thing to tear something down and by the same token, you'll notice they will also more than likely completely overlook the biggest defects in other products because of one wow-worthy feature.

Example, most review sites say the new Dell XPS 13 ultrabook is pretty awesome all around. And yet, Engadget and a couple of other sites couldn't get over the fact that it didn't have quite as many ports for SD cards or whatever as some other product. These same reviewers will go through a ton of other products with the exact same deficiencies and never say anything but magically on ONE product, it becomes the sole reason not to recommend it.

Stuff like that irritates the crap out of me.

Sasquach Apr 10, 2012 06:18 PM

you're just blind.

Everyone could notice a pentile display the same as people noiticing each glaring little pixel shade being in the wrong space in a game compared to a competitor.

I mean...pffft...so easy......

And its a DEALBREAKER!!!!!




:bleh:

kytprice Apr 10, 2012 06:36 PM

You know I have owned a Thunderbolt, Incredible, Droid X, original Droid and 2 iPhones and I don't mind the pentile screen on my Droid X2 at all. Of course my eyesight is not the best. But it looks pretty good to me.

guest Apr 10, 2012 07:41 PM

Samsung makes Super AMOLED Plus displays. My Droid Charge has one. Why not get a perfect display? It looks perfect to me. I'll probably keep my Droid Charge till it stops working... Or until 5" versions of that display comes out.

Elysian Apr 10, 2012 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sazar (Post 1336894214)
Some people are just fixated with crap like that. They will use the smallest thing to tear something down and by the same token, you'll notice they will also more than likely completely overlook the biggest defects in other products because of one wow-worthy feature.

Example, most review sites say the new Dell XPS 13 ultrabook is pretty awesome all around. And yet, Engadget and a couple of other sites couldn't get over the fact that it didn't have quite as many ports for SD cards or whatever as some other product. These same reviewers will go through a ton of other products with the exact same deficiencies and never say anything but magically on ONE product, it becomes the sole reason not to recommend it.

Stuff like that irritates the crap out of me.

Pentile displays just look like crap to my eyes, there's no two ways about it. Even the RAZR's screen just isn't optimal, it still looks like a pentile display. Compare any pentile screen to any IPS screen and try and say pentile is superior or even on par, I don't think you'll be able to. Your example, while sort of valid, still doesn't deal with something you have to look at every single time you use the device, it's not dealing with the main point of interaction with said device, so it's much more trivial.

DaJMasta Apr 10, 2012 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guest (Post 1336894484)
Samsung makes Super AMOLED Plus displays. My Droid Charge has one. Why not get a perfect display? It looks perfect to me. I'll probably keep my Droid Charge till it stops working... Or until 5" versions of that display comes out.

My Galaxy Nexus doesn't even have the plus moniker and is a pentile screen. It looks great. Get off their nuts, reviewers.

Sasquach Apr 10, 2012 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian (Post 1336894495)
Pentile displays just look like crap to my eyes, there's no two ways about it. Even the RAZR's screen just isn't optimal, it still looks like a pentile display. Compare any pentile screen to any IPS screen and try and say pentile is superior or even on par, I don't think you'll be able to. Your example, while sort of valid, still doesn't deal with something you have to look at every single time you use the device, it's not dealing with the main point of interaction with said device, so it's much more trivial.

you could probably spot those pixels shifting between frames too..

i want your eyes, mine are bad.

aviphysics Apr 10, 2012 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian (Post 1336894495)
Compare any pentile screen to any IPS screen and try and say pentile is superior or even on par, I don't think you'll be able to.

Do they even make IPS displays for phones? Any desktop display is way lower pixel density so I don't think that is a very fair comparison. At any rate, even at the same pixel density I am betting I would notice the contrast difference before the pentile arrangement.

You must have very good eyes compared to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guest (Post 1336894484)
Why not get a perfect display?

Cause I am on T-mobile and I would rather get the phone with the best camera than a display that I can't even tell is better. Therefore the One S is probably gonna be the one for me.

Elysian Apr 10, 2012 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aviphysics (Post 1336894650)
Do they even make IPS displays for phones? Any desktop display is way lower pixel density so I don't think that is a very fair comparison. At any rate, even at the same pixel density I am betting I would notice the contrast difference before the pentile arrangement.

You must have very good eyes compared to me.



Cause I am on T-mobile and I would rather get the phone with the best camera than a display that I can't even tell is better. Therefore the One S is probably gonna be the one for me.

iPhone is IPS. All variants of Moto Droid are IPS. Not sure about other manufacturers. Asus Transformer and Moto Xyboard are IPS.

You can compare the Samsung Galaxy S to the Moto Droid X (both the same generation) and it's obvious the Droid X has the nicer screen at a very similar pixel density.

Cynicalking Apr 11, 2012 12:05 AM

Yeah I notice it on my Atrix, but only if I stick it right into my face. From normal viewing distance, it's barely noticeable, I don't mind it.

Ego Apr 11, 2012 08:40 AM

The new One X from HTC is also IPS, but due to some patent trolling they're not allowed to say it; instead, they use the "LCD2 terminology".

guest Apr 11, 2012 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaJMasta (Post 1336894544)
My Galaxy Nexus doesn't even have the plus moniker and is a pentile screen. It looks great. Get off their nuts, reviewers.

Look at a plus and non plus side by side and you can tell. Especially with fine text. The plus version of Super AMOLED is RGB and not pentile.


There is science behind why it looks better.

http://www.cnet.com/8301-17918_1-20056639-85.html

Quote:

The Super AMOLED Plus screens have 1,152,000 subpixels, a 50 percent increase over the 768,000 subpixels in the Super AMOLED display.
When comparing pentile vs RGB Super AMOLED displays make sure you have displays of the same size and resolution. Otherwise it's not really a valid comparison.

wc326 Apr 11, 2012 10:26 AM

super amoled plus text is really sharp and clean.

guest Apr 11, 2012 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aviphysics (Post 1336894650)
Cause I am on T-mobile and I would rather get the phone with the best camera than a display that I can't even tell is better. Therefore the One S is probably gonna be the one for me.

I like the camera on my charge. It takes fairly decent looking pictures. It really shines in taking 720p video though. But there is better...

For my display there is not anything better. I really like watching Netflix videos on it, the colors etc are better than my plasma set. Yes the resolution is lower but it looks great and has the best black levels.

caveman-jim Apr 11, 2012 02:22 PM

What's pentile display?

I was apprehensive entering the thread thinking it was a new touch feedback system, not quite tactile.

aviphysics Apr 11, 2012 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caveman-jim (Post 1336895217)
What's pentile display?

I was apprehensive entering the thread thinking it was a new touch feedback system, not quite tactile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile_matrix_family

Pentile


RGB (non pentile)

aviphysics Apr 11, 2012 02:44 PM

What seems like a BS comparison from the Verge review. This is what I stared long and hard at on my pentile equipped phone to try and see but there is just no way I can. Even scooting way back from my monitor as far as I can so that it is the same size as the icon on my phone I can't make this image resemble the way the icon appears on my phone. It is just total BS that totally misrepresents the difference in technology.


Elysian Apr 11, 2012 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aviphysics (Post 1336895238)
What seems like a BS comparison from the Verge review. This is what I stared long and hard at on my pentile equipped phone to try and see but there is just no way I can. Even scooting way back from my monitor as far as I can so that it is the same size as the icon on my phone I can't make this image resemble the way the icon appears on my phone. It is just total BS that totally misrepresents the difference in technology.


There's nothing BS about it.

aviphysics Apr 11, 2012 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian (Post 1336895261)
There's nothing BS about it.

How so? It doesn't represent the real difference. At the very least it seems like whatever camera they used to shoot the picture some how way over represents the green pixels.

If it was accurate than scooting back far enough it should look like the icon on my phone which it does not. The shade of off white doesn't even come close to matching. It just looks green. Another clue that something isn't right is the fact that on the left the off-white is relatively uniform but on the right the red pixels seem to look almost yellow new the top middle and the green pixels appear much smaller towards the bottom right.

Elysian Apr 11, 2012 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aviphysics (Post 1336895269)
How so? It doesn't represent the real difference. At the very least it seems like whatever camera they used to shoot the picture some how way over represents the green pixels.

If it was accurate than scooting back far enough it should look like the icon on my phone which it does not.

I've seen enough pentile screens, it absolutely represents the difference.

aviphysics Apr 11, 2012 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian (Post 1336895270)
I've seen enough pentile screens, it absolutely represents the difference.

:nag::nag::nag::nag::nag:
I have one in front of me right now and holding it up to the picture there is just no freaking way. I am willing to believe that some people can see a difference that I can't but this is not it. Just no freaking way at all. I am starting to think you must be the one with screwed up eyes if you think that looks like an icon on my phone.

I have tried in good faith as hard as I can to see the resemblance between that picture and reality and it totally escapes me. Though the color is pretty much a uniform off-white in real life, the picture seems to indicate that my envelope should be a vibrant green. That is most certainly is not the case.

In what way do you think it is an accurate representation?

Elysian Apr 11, 2012 03:26 PM

You are aware those images are taken with low exposure right? That doesn't change the downsides of pentile, which can be clearly shown in that picture, where it's white it's not white and where it's supposed to be smooth it's very rough. Blurred or off-color edges are also very present.

Tizen Apr 11, 2012 03:37 PM

:nag: :nag:

HTC One X - 720 x 1280 pixels, 4.7 inches (~312 ppi pixel density)
HTC One S - 540 x 960 pixels, 4.3 inches (~256 ppi pixel density)

The One X is using a crapload more pixels to display the same icon, of course it look better when compared 1:1 with the One S. I also wonder about a crapload of other settings they could have manipulated.



Not arguing that full RGB is not better than pentile, but it is not that better at high DPI.


Edit:

If the One X picture would be a bit more high resolution, which it should be for a fair comparison, you would see the subpixels. The mere fact that you can't see them should set of flags that they ****ed something up.

fryjs Apr 11, 2012 03:54 PM

My past 2 phones have been pentile amoled, and I can certainly spot one immediately. Even the galaxy nexus is still slightly noticeable, although it's marginal and you really have to be looking for it as it is quite high res. Some colors fringe more than others, a single pixel red horizontal line for example will look more like a dotted line, whereas a blue line will look fine.

However I can also easily spot an lcd a mile away because the blacks are never black. My iPad3 vs Lumia:

With the Lumia, the black of the bezel is the same as the black of the screen, not so with the iPad3.

There is a trade-off for pentile amoled and also RGB lcd, each has a distinct disadvantage compared to the other, and for my chosen OS (wp7) black blacks are more important for me.

I look forward to 300ppi RGB stripe amoled displays, which will be awesome.

aviphysics Apr 11, 2012 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian (Post 1336895292)
You are aware those images are taken with low exposure right? That doesn't change the downsides of pentile, which can be clearly shown in that picture, where it's white it's not white and where it's supposed to be smooth it's very rough. Blurred or off-color edges are also very present.

It is green because they screwed up the image. The oleds are blurry because they screwed up the image. You can't see the individual oleds on the One X display because they screwed up the image. It is a bad image. Why can't you admit that? You don't have to argue the accuracy of this image to argue that RGB stripes are better. No one is even saying they aren't better by some amount (though not everyone can spot the difference).

aviphysics Apr 11, 2012 04:20 PM

This seems like a better comparison. Still not perfect but I believe it is probably a reasonable depiction of what the difference might be like for people who can see it. I think the IPS might be just ever so slightly higher resolution.
On the left is IPS LCD, on the right is AMOLED


From here
http://www.pocketdroid.net/compariso...amoled-display

fryjs Apr 11, 2012 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian (Post 1336895292)
You are aware those images are taken with low exposure right? That doesn't change the downsides of pentile, which can be clearly shown in that picture, where it's white it's not white and where it's supposed to be smooth it's very rough. Blurred or off-color edges are also very present.

There is something wrong in that picture. If you look towards the bottom right of the pentile icon, it gets closer to what it actually should be.
Resized image to illustrate:


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