Rage3D Discussion Area

Rage3D Discussion Area (http://www.rage3d.com/board/index.php)
-   General Hardware (http://www.rage3d.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
-   -   Intel cpu bug. Os patch might reduce perf up to 30% (http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=34046560)

nycdarkness Jan 2, 2018 05:30 PM

Intel cpu bug. Os patch might reduce perf up to 30%
 
https://hothardware.com/news/intel-c...-windows-macos

Gandalfthewhite Jan 2, 2018 05:54 PM

yeah I mean I doubt we will see that much performance difference in games but will be interesting to see this tested out.

in terms of security oh man they done ****ed up.

DigitalDemon Jan 2, 2018 05:57 PM

This just in.. Intel's next gen CPUs to boost performance by 30%! Pre-order now!

Hapatingjaky Jan 2, 2018 06:25 PM

If the 30% performance hit is true then that eliminates Intel's IPC lead.

**** just got real son.

0091/2 Jan 2, 2018 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky (Post 1338044211)
If the 30% performance hit is true then that eliminates Intel's IPC lead.

**** just got real son.

:lol: Did the author pull the 30% number out of his ass?:bleh:

Greasy Jan 2, 2018 08:13 PM

Meanwhile at AMD...


0091/2 Jan 2, 2018 08:17 PM

Do you think people will start a lawsuit if performance is that huge?:bleh2:
It sounds it'll affect Cloud VM machines than everyday users.
https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/co..._bug_incoming/

Greasy Jan 2, 2018 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0091/2 (Post 1338044233)
:lol: Did the author pull the 30% number out of his ass?:bleh:

The article references The Register. Their article has more details.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...u_design_flaw/

Hapatingjaky Jan 2, 2018 09:30 PM

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...5-x86pti&num=2

Someone has done some benchmarks already. Gaming performance is unaffected but some hits are massive depending on the tasks. Could be up to 35% performance loss now.

I see a lawsuit in Intel's future.

demo Jan 2, 2018 09:49 PM

After the success of Ryzen and TR, this is great news for AMD.

I hear VIA is releasing an 8-core chip that rivals Ryzen2 performance next year, this could be great for competition in the CPU market - to knock Intel down a peg or two.

Greasy Jan 2, 2018 10:11 PM

This hits them where it hurts the most.,, Data centers!

These types of performance loses at that scale cost these companies a fortune. I predict AMD stock is going to be on the up very soon. :lol:

bill dennison Jan 2, 2018 11:28 PM

Intel buyer





:p



10 years wonder how long intel has know about it ?


glad I still have all my old intel chips after the lawsuits maybe I can return them :lol:

pax Jan 2, 2018 11:46 PM

Dont suppose this lawsuit goes back to the celeron 300a? It was my last intel cpu. Mind you I doubt I can find it... its buried in the basement...

Megaman Jan 2, 2018 11:52 PM

On the plus, gaming isn't affected.

On the plus, when giving ETAs on projects and go lives at work I'll have to factor this in. :bleh:

bill dennison Jan 2, 2018 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megaman (Post 1338044281)
On the plus, gaming isn't affected.

On the plus, when giving ETAs on projects and go lives at work I'll have to factor this in. :bleh:

on Linux
I don't know many that game on Linux

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...l-Gaming-Tests

have you seen any benchmarks on windows 7/8/10 ?

is the windows fix out yet ?

Quote:

Programmers are scrambling to overhaul the open-source Linux kernel's virtual memory system. Meanwhile, Microsoft is expected to publicly introduce the necessary changes to its Windows operating system in an upcoming Patch Tuesday: these changes were seeded to beta testers running fast-ring Windows Insider builds in November and December.
in other news
Quote:

Intel's CEO Just Sold a Lot of Stock
Quote:

On Nov. 29
https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/...-of-stock.aspx


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TnkJ8_BmSI

badsykes Jan 3, 2018 02:47 AM

I am not happy about this even if it's intel.On the other hand do they knew about this and it was discovered by the public in 2017 or it was discovered just popped out in this time frame for the first time ?

bill dennison Jan 3, 2018 02:56 AM

now it get dumb

Quote:

Intel is secretly firefighting a major hardware security vulnerability affecting its entire x86 processor lineup. The hardware-level vulnerability allows unauthorized memory access between two virtual machines (VMs) running on a physical machine, due to Intel's flawed implementation of its hardware-level virtualization instruction sets. OS kernel-level software patches to mitigate this vulnerability, come at huge performance costs that strike at the very economics of choosing Intel processors in large-scale datacenters and cloud-computing providers, over processors from AMD. Ryzen, Opteron, and EPYC processors are inherently immune to this vulnerability, yet the kernel patches seem to impact performance of both AMD and Intel processors.

Close inspection of kernel patches reveal code that forces machines running all x86 processors, Intel or AMD, to be patched, regardless of the fact that AMD processors are immune. Older commits to the Linux kernel git, which should feature the line "if (c->x86_vendor != X86_VENDOR_AMD)" (condition that the processor should be flagged "X86_BUG_CPU_INSECURE" only if it's not an AMD processor), have been replaced with the line "/* Assume for now that ALL x86 CPUs are insecure */" with no further accepted commits in the past 10 days. This shows that AMD's requests are being turned down by Kernel developers. Their intentions are questionable in the wake of proof that AMD processors are immune, given that patched software inflicts performance penalties on both Intel and AMD processors creating a crony "level playing field," even if the latter doesn't warrant a patch. Ideally, AMD should push to be excluded from this patch, and offer to demonstrate the invulnerability of its processors to Intel's mess.
https://www.techpowerup.com/240187/a...kernel-patches

bobvodka Jan 3, 2018 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megaman (Post 1338044281)
On the plus, gaming isn't affected.

Yeah, from what I understand of the problem that's likely to remain the case going forward on both linux and Windows.

The whole thing has to do with access to kernel functionality, with the fix seemingly 'flush TLB/VM page table of kernel pages', which is something games generally don't do much of.

Things like disk IO might well take a hit/stall when the functions are called upon as they basically tunnel down to kernel level stuffs in some cases; but general frame-to-frame operations probably won't be impacted as things like gfx API code now sits largely in user land away from the kernel.

As others have mentioned, it'll be data centres and the like which get a bit of an ouch when it comes to this... I'd be surprised if gamers notice any problems however 👍

Hapatingjaky Jan 3, 2018 06:25 AM

They should bench AssCreed, since it uses VMProtect to see if it impacts performance.

Treeckcold57 Jan 3, 2018 09:53 AM

https://danluu.com/cpu-bugs/

EDITED:

Quote:

After writing this, an ex-Intel employee said “even with your privileged access, you have no idea” and a pseudo-anonymous commenter on reddit made this comment:
As someone who worked in an Intel Validation group for SOCs until mid-2014 or so I can tell you, yes, you will see more CPU bugs from Intel than you have in the past from the post-FDIV-bug era until recently.
Why?
Let me set the scene: It’s late in 2013. Intel is frantic about losing the mobile CPU wars to ARM. Meetings with all the validation groups. Head honcho in charge of Validation says something to the effect of: “We need to move faster. Validation at Intel is taking much longer than it does for our competition. We need to do whatever we can to reduce those times… we can’t live forever in the shadow of the early 90’s FDIV bug, we need to move on. Our competition is moving much faster than we are” - I’m paraphrasing. Many of the engineers in the room could remember the FDIV bug and the ensuing problems caused for Intel 20 years prior. Many of us were aghast that someone highly placed would suggest we needed to cut corners in validation - that wasn’t explicitly said, of course, but that was the implicit message. That meeting there in late 2013 signaled a sea change at Intel to many of us who were there. And it didn’t seem like it was going to be a good kind of sea change. Some of us chose to get out while the getting was good. As someone who worked in an Intel Validation group for SOCs until mid-2014 or so I can tell you, yes, you will see more CPU bugs from Intel than you have in the past from the post-FDIV-bug era until recently.


Treeckcold57 Jan 3, 2018 10:41 AM

https://twitter.com/Breaking911/stat...26131067953158 :lol:

0091/2 Jan 3, 2018 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison (Post 1338044302)

I hope Microsoft isn't doing the same thing.

Treeckcold57 Jan 3, 2018 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0091/2 (Post 1338044403)
I hope Microsoft isn't doing the same thing.

I'm sure AMD will get it sorted out for next round after this. Probably just a temporary till they figure it out. But I dunno. *shrugged*

Hapatingjaky Jan 3, 2018 11:15 AM

Intel is forcing developers to implement it regardless of CPU. Doesn't surprise, can't lose performance to the competition.

Gonna offload the 8700K as soon as Ryzen2 hits.

0091/2 Jan 3, 2018 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky (Post 1338044409)
Intel is forcing developers to implement it regardless of CPU. Doesn't surprise, can't lose performance to the competition.

Gonna offload the 8700K as soon as Ryzen2 hits.

How does Intel force developers to do that?:confused:

bill dennison Jan 3, 2018 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0091/2 (Post 1338044412)
How does Intel force developers to do that?:confused:

money money money

if true i'm sure AMD will sue

....

Quote:

AMD shares surge on report of an Intel chip security flaw
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/03/amd-...rity-flaw.html

badsykes Jan 3, 2018 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky (Post 1338044409)
Intel is forcing developers to implement it regardless of CPU. Doesn't surprise, can't lose performance to the competition.

Gonna offload the 8700K as soon as Ryzen2 hits.


Why you offload the 8700k ? Are you using VM ?

Riptide Jan 3, 2018 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pax (Post 1338044279)
Dont suppose this lawsuit goes back to the celeron 300a? It was my last intel cpu. Mind you I doubt I can find it... its buried in the basement...

If there is a class action on 10 years of CPU sales they are going to be in trouble. Its like the takata airbag fiasco. Years and years of parts/sales. Depending on the settlement this seems like it could really hurt Intel.
Quote:

Originally Posted by 0091/2 (Post 1338044403)
I hope Microsoft isn't doing the same thing.

Better not be. I know a lot of people gonna be real upset if their AMD cpu takes a dive because of an Intel issue. I've already heard the conspiracy theorists talking about how it absolutely MUST be Intel bribing/colluding to make it happen.

You need proof of that before you can win in court.

Hapatingjaky Jan 3, 2018 01:27 PM

WHat it looks like Intel is doing is trying to convince developers that its in their ( developers ) best interest to target all x86 CPU's let it be Intel, AMD or whoever just to be on the safe side. AMD is turning around and saying it doesn't effect our CPU's because we don't let anything access the Kernel at that level.

All AMD has to do is prove it, and it should be easy enough for them to do so.

Nagorak Jan 3, 2018 02:11 PM

I am skeptical whether lawsuits are going to be very successful. If it's an inadvertent bug then it's not like Intel has been misrepresenting anything, and what were the alternatives anyway? Bulldozer based processors are probably still slower even after the fix. Ryzen only came out in the last year. So, it's not like these companies could have bought anything else even if performance was lower.

Quote:

Originally Posted by demo (Post 1338044252)
After the success of Ryzen and TR, this is great news for AMD.

I hear VIA is releasing an 8-core chip that rivals Ryzen2 performance next year, this could be great for competition in the CPU market - to knock Intel down a peg or two.

I doubt anything claimed by VIA.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:49 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All trademarks used are properties of their respective owners. Copyright ©1998-2011 Rage3D.com