Need help with Compression and if possible commercial removal using VistaMC-Tv Pack

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DA1745

The Big Cheese
I have been using Vista Media Center (with the TV Pack 2008) to enable QAM.. I'm using one, sometimes two TV Wonder 650's and things are great EXCEPT...
FILE size is outrageously large even when set to the lowest quality recording in settings. (HD files are around 6GB an hour/ SD vary but can be quite large 1-3GB).

I need help to find the latest / best way to compress these files down. I am looking for ease of use and effeciency.

The TV Pack changed the file format to .wtv from .dvr-ms but i'm overwhelmed trying to figure out what now works with .wtv for commercial removal and compression.
Do I need to convert back to .dvr-ms first ? If so what's the best program to do that and then what could/should I use to remove commercials / compress file sizes

If something now works directly with .wtv could you tell me what?

Additional thoughts about it....I know Windows 7 has the "TV Pack" functionality built in so looking forward it probably won't be a problem to play burned disks of .wtv on those systems, but what about XP pro?

If I convert them to .dvr-ms first and then remove commercials/compress them will that make them playable on windows XP?

or do I have to go further and strip off the wrapper/convert them to mpeg2?

before you say go google. I have been. I have so many tabs open that I'm just overwhelmed. If I had a few weeks to burn through it all I would be ok but I need to get something rolling / compressing soon.

Thank you so much in advance.
 
not just google, but http://www.videohelp.com

now i havent started capping yet, but you'd want to make some method (if a single app doesnt exist) that takes a bunch of files in the format you capped, & spits out xvid/mpeg4/x264 (mpeg2 is too ugly at the same low bitrates of ~1mbit) smaller files

i'm curious about these .wtv & .dvr-ms files, maybe you could post a 5 or 10 sec clip & i could look into a workflow to get them smaller
 
kn00tcn said:
not just google, but http://www.videohelp.com

now i havent started capping yet, but you'd want to make some method (if a single app doesnt exist) that takes a bunch of files in the format you capped, & spits out xvid/mpeg4/x264 (mpeg2 is too ugly at the same low bitrates of ~1mbit) smaller files

i'm curious about these .wtv & .dvr-ms files, maybe you could post a 5 or 10 sec clip & i could look into a workflow to get them smaller
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure if I'm too new or how I can post a file...On other boards theres a post attachment option under the text box but on here I don't see one?
 
http://w14.easy-share.com/1701207119.html

I knew there was at least one out there. Found the sample link on videoredo.net...thank you kindly! - BTW you have to have TV Pack 2008 installed (in Vista) - ("they" used to say it wouldn't play them in Media Player only in VMedia Center, but i play them in Media player, it plays them fine...maybe b/c of an update or b/c I didnt' install playsure???) or be using Windows 7 Media Center (WTV is Native in W7).

They have been working hard at videoredo for about 4 months now trying to get a WTV convertor/transcoder.
Sounds like MCEbuddy has a command line beta product out...just learned about ORB...haven't even had time to google

I came across a few companies selling covertion tools.
Cyberlink's (think it's power director - at least two versions one for $119 ultimate and another (maybe deluxe?) for $69.99. They are too much.
Another one selling three seperate products (COME ON!!) WTV to Mp4, WTV to MPEG2, WTV to AVI. EACH for $29.99. That's a joke... MAYBE $29.99 if it did all three but that's $90.00 if I wanted all three. Plus they cripple the trial to max of 300mb file (rather have the full version work only a few times to test on a real like 8GB situation....to ensure they have no problems handling big files.

MICROSOFT COME ON! FREE AND OPEN FILE FORMATS! If it's too valuable for the TV Networks to air over OUR GD airwaves that they PAY NOTHING TO USE (other than a few half rate 22 minute news broadcast daily - locally amounts to 5 short stories a boat load of SPORTs and WEATHER and fluff), then it should go straight to DVD where they can charge for it et cetera; don't even RISK putting it out onto the airwaves where theives dressed as couch potatoes will try and steal it! Otherwise, GIVE IT UP, these hoops will ALWAYS BE BROKEN CRACKED / HACKED EVENTUALLY you just piss your customer off more & more in the meantime with 8GB - Hour Shows (that's on the lowest quality setting "FAIR" in Vista Media Center. I could live with the DRM restrictions if i could just compress the file size built into Windows.
 
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hah law & order... there's a funny recent madtv skit about it

i will try to play around with this file without that tv pack
 
If it helps at all, 'least in understanding what's going on, when you use QAM or ATSC you're recording the digital stream as it's broadcast -- you're not digitizing an analog signal. When you digitize analog signals you're creating the file from scratch, & can set compression, bit rate etc as you see fit. With the HD you're simply taking the signal in thru your tuner & writing it to hdd, same as if you were downloading the file off the web. You can make it smaller after the fact by re-encoding to a more efficient format [i.e. mpg2 -> AVC] &/or reducing the frame size, &/or also reducing the size of the audio file portion.

Regarding the new media center format, what MS has done is include a DRM decoder in the chain of DS filters needed for things like display. If you capture analog it's still mpg2 with some alterations to the container file, just like DVR-MS. Both that & the new format, once you get past the DRM, will convert to mpg2 *without* re-encoding... That's the only thing I use the video editor in Roxio EMC9 for [have no idea if this still works in later versions from Roxio]. Unfortunately the only way I'm aware of today to get past the DRM without encoding is to setup the filters in Graphedit or preferably GraphStudio. If you can get it set properly, you can do a quick data dump of the video & audio streams directly to a new file without either re-encoding or having to do it in slower real time.

That said, if you want to work regularly with these HD files, you might consider solutions other than the built-in media center in Vista -- you should be able to record the same strreams in their native mpg2 without DRM or anything else added. If/when you resize during HD conversion (say 1080 -> 720), you might look at AviSynth... On mpg2 1080 (both p & i), using DGIndex -> AviSynth (for resize etc) -> VirtualDub (for any filtering & re-encoding to DivX/Xvid) works very fast.
 
mikiem said:
If it helps at all, 'least in understanding what's going on, when you use QAM or ATSC you're recording the digital stream as it's broadcast -- you're not digitizing an analog signal. When you digitize analog signals you're creating the file from scratch, & can set compression, bit rate etc as you see fit. With the HD you're simply taking the signal in thru your tuner & writing it to hdd, same as if you were downloading the file off the web. You can make it smaller after the fact by re-encoding to a more efficient format [i.e. mpg2 -> AVC] &/or reducing the frame size, &/or also reducing the size of the audio file portion.

Regarding the new media center format, what MS has done is include a DRM decoder in the chain of DS filters needed for things like display. If you capture analog it's still mpg2 with some alterations to the container file, just like DVR-MS. Both that & the new format, once you get past the DRM, will convert to mpg2 *without* re-encoding... That's the only thing I use the video editor in Roxio EMC9 for [have no idea if this still works in later versions from Roxio]. Unfortunately the only way I'm aware of today to get past the DRM without encoding is to setup the filters in Graphedit or preferably GraphStudio. If you can get it set properly, you can do a quick data dump of the video & audio streams directly to a new file without either re-encoding or having to do it in slower real time.

That said, if you want to work regularly with these HD files, you might consider solutions other than the built-in media center in Vista -- you should be able to record the same strreams in their native mpg2 without DRM or anything else added. If/when you resize during HD conversion (say 1080 -> 720), you might look at AviSynth... On mpg2 1080 (both p & i), using DGIndex -> AviSynth (for resize etc) -> VirtualDub (for any filtering & re-encoding to DivX/Xvid) works very fast.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your response. Nice to see you back around these parts :D
It must be able to do some compression right off the bat though (even with the Digital signal) because I get different file sizes when i select different quality settings. But the explanation of why the digital are so much larger seems to make sense via what you said.

I tried to play with Graph edit and it's way over my head...I spent a long few days reading that thread that's stickied and it's just beyond my comprehension at this point. I need someone physically at my location to learn somethings, but the other programs are possible. Unfortunately of the list of programs like Media Portal, GB-PVR that I can set up I don't recognize any of ones you posted and I've got a list over over 20 TV tuner programs.

Back to VMC:
I know that MCEbuddy is working on a dirty Beta version right now for .WTV. Video Help has been working hard for MONTHS now (still hung up on a few particulars) and there is a paid program that I might end of getting to convert the .WTV rapper into something else.
I just think it's a dirty trick that MS played, that they didn't need to. .WTV is ~ cracked and will soon be just another footnote in there attempts to restrict us. For the mean time i'll just sit tight.
 
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